Kara no Kyokai novels fully translated

[aldeayeah]

Gurren Lagann is actually set in the post-Notes Land of Steel.

Discuss.

[Ragnar]

If memory serves, there was something about Gaia giving up the possibility of having a Type in order to be a host for many more diverse lifeforms, but I don't remember where I read that.

[Bittersweet]

Gurren Lagann is actually set in the post-Notes Land of Steel.

Discuss.

So the Types were anti-spiral?

[mewarmo990]

You know, what really reminded me of Notes, etc. was Asura's Wrath. The overall antagonist and Root of All Evil is basically the planet rejecting the humanity and the demigods. You play as an inhuman demigod rage monster in a post-apocalyptic world where the few humans left are walking meat.

[Mcjon01]

It's been a while, let's trash talk Cokesakto some more!

「―――そうかもしれない。
　抑止力というのはね、我々にとって最大の味方でもあり、同時に最大の敵でもある“方向の修復 者”を指す。
　私達人間は死にたくない。平和でいたい。
　私達のいる星だって死にたくない。長生きしたい。
　抑止力というのはそれだ。霊長という群体の誰もが持つ統一された意識、自分達の世を存続させたいという願 望。我を取り外してヒトという種の本能にある方向性が収束し、カタチになったもの。それが抑止力とよばれる カウンターガーディアン。
　そうだな、例えばａという優れた人間が世界征服を行なったとしよう。彼は正義の人で、その統治は理想的で あったとする。人間が人間として見た道徳性の限りでね。
　しかしａの行動がひとりの人間としてではなく、霊長全体の視点から見て悪、つまり滅びの要因となる場合、 抑止力は具現する。
　コレは霊長の世を存続させたい、というａさえ含めた人類の無意識下の集合体だ。人類を守る為に人類を拘束 するこの存在は、誰も知らないうちに現れ、誰にも観測される事なくａを消滅させる。人々の無意識下の渦が作 り上げた代表者は、やはり無意識であるが故に意識されない。
　とはいっても、何もカタチのない意識が呪いになってａを殺す訳ではない。抑止力は、たいてい媒体となりう る人間に宿り、敵となるａを駆逐する。媒体になった人間はａを倒す為だけの能力を持つが、それ以上の能力は 与えられない。ａにとって代わる事ができないようにね。
　抑止力という霊長全体の意志を受けとめられる受信者、そういった特殊なチャンネルを持つ人間というのは稀 に存在する。歴史は、これを英雄と呼んでもてはやすんだ。
　だが近代になってこの呼び名は使われないな。文明が発達して、人間が自分達自身を滅ぼすなんて事は簡単に なってしまった。どこぞの企業の会長が全財力を傾けてアマゾンの森林の伐採量を増やせば、一年後にも地球は 終わる。ほら、いつでもどこでも地球のピンチだろ？　抑止力に衝き動かされて誰も知らないうちに世界を救っ ている、なんて輩はごまんといるんだ。英雄は一世代に一人だけ。世界を救う、なんて程度の事じゃあ現代では 英雄とは呼ばれない。
　また、このａが人間の手におえない場合、抑止力は自然現象となってａもろとも周囲を消滅させる。大昔、ど こぞの大陸が沈んだのもこいつの仕業さ。
　こう話すと人類の守護者そのものなんだが、こいつには人間としての感情がない。時には万人を幸せにすると いう行為の前に立ち塞がる事もある。
　厄介なのは、こいつが結局人間そのものの代表者だという事だ。我々がそれを認識できなくても、抑止力は最 強の霊長なんだ。過去幾度となく、ある実験に挑戦した魔術師達の前にはコレが現れ、魔術師達はことごとく斬 殺された」

“Perhaps. It’s only a theory, a metaphysical rule of the universe. It’s the ‘consensus’ I always talk about, humanity’s greatest ally, and a mage’s most constant enemy. We have no ill will towards people, and only want to live in peace. Unfortunately, reality feels the same way. The combined will of all the people form into a consensual paradigm which tends to restore reality to a stable state, to combat things that logically shouldn’t exist…like the Art and mages. Sometimes, when the consensus is so focused, it coalesces, and becomes a literal manifestation. It can cast its hands into fate to move otherwise normal people in positions that would topple great men. Humanity’s swirling consensus itself is its unseen protector, and the people it channels its will into were the ones we called heroes, though it’s not so easy to have the same result now in the plurality of our world and the ease with which we can fuck ourselves over without knowing it. The Deterrent influences people all the time, saving us without us knowing it. But don’t mistake it as having any empathy for humans. It’s only loyalty is to the consensus, and it doesn’t take into account something like human happiness, where there seems to be no consensus at all. We can only be sure about two things: it is humanity’s representative will, and it will eliminate the paradoxes of the world, the mages and their experiments with the illogical Art.”

It's like he basically rewrote her entire speech in order to cram in his Mage the Awakening Ascension nonsense. Doesn't that make you angry!?

[peanuts]

I never did take a real good look at what he did before.
It's kind of like what Robotech is to Macross, lol.

[Seika]

Woah. I know the literalist translation of that speech, since I've looked it up so many times. It took me way too long to recognise what that was meant to be.

[terraablaze]

It's been a while, let's trash talk Cokesakto some more!
It's like he basically rewrote her entire speech in order to cram in his Mage the Awakening Ascension nonsense. Doesn't that make you angry!?

That's my secret. I'm always angry.

[SeiKeo]

Better the translation I have then the translation I don't!

[Gabriulio]

I agree. If the moonrunes readers keep bashing cokesakto, why don't they translate it themselves?

[SeiKeo]

I agree. If the moonrunes readers keep bashing cokesakto, why don't they translate it themselves?

Well, no, that's not really the thing; it's unreasonable to expect anyone who wants to try and correct errors to do the entire thing themself just to gain credibility.

[terraablaze]

Well the first 4 and most of the 5th are already up on Baka Tsuki for your much improved reading pleasure, CanonRap translated Mirai Fukuin, and they've translated almost all of the hard bits over again from cokesakto's translation. So they almost have at this point.

[Seika]

Better the translation I have then the translation I don't!

But we have a translation for this bit. That's how I can stare in amazement and be annoyed by coke, instead of stare in bafflement and be annoyed at McJon for not telling us what bits are insane.

[terraablaze]

herkz says: February 7, 2013 at 5:12 am
correct
and we wont be adding random details
we’re way too lazy for that

Relevant to the topic at hand.

[aldeayeah]

「―――そうかもしれない。
　抑止力というのはね、我々にとって最大の味方でもあり、同時に最大の敵でもある“方向の修復 者”を指す。
　私達人間は死にたくない。平和でいたい。
　私達のいる星だって死にたくない。長生きしたい。
　抑止力というのはそれだ。霊長という群体の誰もが持つ統一された意識、自分達の世を存続させ たいという願 望。我を取り外してヒトという種の本能にある方向性が収束し、カタチになったもの。それが抑止 力とよばれる カウンターガーディアン。
　そうだな、例えばａという優れた人間が世界征服を行なったとしよう。彼は正義の人で、その統 治は理想的で あったとする。人間が人間として見た道徳性の限りでね。
　しかしａの行動がひとりの人間としてではなく、霊長全体の視点から見て悪、つまり滅びの要因 となる場合、 抑止力は具現する。
　コレは霊長の世を存続させたい、というａさえ含めた人類の無意識下の集合体だ。人類を守る為 に人類を拘束 するこの存在は、誰も知らないうちに現れ、誰にも観測される事なくａを消滅させる。人々の無意 識下の渦が作 り上げた代表者は、やはり無意識であるが故に意識されない。
　とはいっても、何もカタチのない意識が呪いになってａを殺す訳ではない。抑止力は、たいてい 媒体となりう る人間に宿り、敵となるａを駆逐する。媒体になった人間はａを倒す為だけの能力を持つが、それ 以上の能力は 与えられない。ａにとって代わる事ができないようにね。
　抑止力という霊長全体の意志を受けとめられる受信者、そういった特殊なチャンネルを持つ人間 というのは稀 に存在する。歴史は、これを英雄と呼んでもてはやすんだ。
　だが近代になってこの呼び名は使われないな。文明が発達して、人間が自分達自身を滅ぼすなん て事は簡単に なってしまった。どこぞの企業の会長が全財力を傾けてアマゾンの森林の伐採量を増やせば、一年 後にも地球は 終わる。ほら、いつでもどこでも地球のピンチだろ？　抑止力に衝き動かされて誰も知らないうち に世界を救っ ている、なんて輩はごまんといるんだ。英雄は一世代に一人だけ。世界を救う、なんて程度の事じ ゃあ現代では 英雄とは呼ばれない。
　また、このａが人間の手におえない場合、抑止力は自然現象となってａもろとも周囲を消滅させ る。大昔、ど こぞの大陸が沈んだのもこいつの仕業さ。
　こう話すと人類の守護者そのものなんだが、こいつには人間としての感情がない。時には万人を 幸せにすると いう行為の前に立ち塞がる事もある。
　厄介なのは、こいつが結局人間そのものの代表者だという事だ。我々がそれを認識できなくても 、抑止力は最 強の霊長なんだ。過去幾度となく、ある実験に挑戦した魔術師達の前にはコレが現れ、魔術師達は ことごとく斬 殺された」

“Perhaps. It’s only a theory, a metaphysical rule of the universe. It’s the ‘consensus’ I always talk about, humanity’s greatest ally, and a mage’s most constant enemy. We have no ill will towards people, and only want to live in peace. Unfortunately, reality feels the same way. The combined will of all the people form into a consensual paradigm which tends to restore reality to a stable state, to combat things that logically shouldn’t exist…like the Art and mages. Sometimes, when the consensus is so focused, it coalesces, and becomes a literal manifestation. It can cast its hands into fate to move otherwise normal people in positions that would topple great men. Humanity’s swirling consensus itself is its unseen protector, and the people it channels its will into were the ones we called heroes, though it’s not so easy to have the same result now in the plurality of our world and the ease with which we can fuck ourselves over without knowing it. The Deterrent influences people all the time, saving us without us knowing it. But don’t mistake it as having any empathy for humans. It’s only loyalty is to the consensus, and it doesn’t take into account something like human happiness, where there seems to be no consensus at all. We can only be sure about two things: it is humanity’s representative will, and it will eliminate the paradoxes of the world, the mages and their experiments with the illogical Art.”

--- You may be right.

You see, that Opposing Power refers to the 'Restorer of Direction' which is at once our greatest ally, and our greatest enemy.

We don't want to kill humans. We want to live in peace.

This planet that we live on doesn't want to die either, it wants to live for a long time.

The Opposing Power is like that. The collective unconsciousness of all those who belong to the whole of the dominant species, their desire to see that the world continues to exist. It is the fundamental wish of the human species that has gathered and taken form, the Counter Guardian that we call the Opposing Power.

Okay, let's take an example and say an extraordinary person A has conquered the world. He is a just person, and his rule has been exemplary. Within the limits of human morals that is. But in the case that you don't look from one person's point of view, and person A's actions are taken as evil by the whole of the dominant species, in short a cause for extinction, the Opposing Power will be realised.

This is the collective body of the unconscious desire of all members of the dominant species including A to keep the world as it is in existence. To protect the race this existence that composes the species appears without anyone realising, and without anyone noticing, destroys the existence called A. The representative created by the maelstrom of humanity's unconscious mind is also a part of that unconsciousness and is not picked up.

Even so, it's not to say that a formless consciousness becomes a curse and kills A. The Opposing Power generally hides within a human who can become a link, then drives out A who is the enemy. The person who has become the link has enough power to topple A, but no more, in order that they cannot replace A.

Receivers who can accept the Opposing Power comprised of the whole of the dominant race's will, humans with special channels like that are few and far between. History calls them heroes and praises them.

But in modern times that title isn't being used. Civilisations progressed to the point where it has become quite simple for humanity to destroy itself. If some company's chairman invested all his money into expanding the amount of logging in the Amazon rainforest, the world could end in a year. See, the Earth is in danger wherever and whenever. There are countless numbers of people who are being incited by the Opposing Power that save the planet without anyone knowing it. There is one hero per age. Such a thing as saving the world is no longer enough to get you called a hero.

Also, in the case that A is too powerful to topple with a human's power, the Opposing Power becomes a natural force and destroys the area including A. Long, long ago, the sinking of that continent was due to this bastard too.

If you talk about it like this it seems like some guardian of humanity, but this thing has no human emotions. There are times when it blocks acts that would make everyone happier. The aggravating thing is that in the end this nuisance is the representation of humanity itself. Although we can't comprehend it the Opposing Power is the ultimate form of the dominant race. Time and time again in the past, this thing appeared in front of mages who attempted a particular experiment, and the mages were all massacred."

...Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look less like?

[Seika]

It's just so crazy. You shouldn't be able to read Paradox Spiral and miss that the Root is the whole problem here, that the Counter Force is shutting down magi who get too close to it, but he just goes right ahead and says it's all magecraft all the time and messes around with the translation to that effect. I don't get him.

[aldeayeah]

Well, not really. The Counter Force will squash every perceived menace to mankind's survival, not just magi trying to reach the Root.

...I guess finishing the whole thing is too much, but can we pray for a complete Paradox Spiral translation, o prophets?

[Seika]

Well, not really. The Counter Force will squash every perceived menace to mankind's survival, not just magi trying to reach the Root.

...Or at least, that says the Touko in the baka-tsuki version.

Yeah, but with reference to magi, the specific issue is of them nearing the Root. Magecraft in general is not problematic.

[aldeayeah]

I know, I wasn't talking about magecraft in particular.

It's like he basically rewrote her entire speech in order to cram in his Mage the Awakening Ascension nonsense. Doesn't that make you angry!?

...It's weird, but by making it more like Mage coke has managed to make it less like Mage; the Paradox force doesn't care too much about lowercase magic (the WW equivalent of magecraft), it only opposes true, miracle-working Magic.

[mewarmo990]

Both translations contain errors and 'liberties'. BT is still more literal relative to coke. There are also some clues that he used BT as a reference because they make the same mistake.

Having only glanced at it before, I'm starting to see the problem with coke's translation. Rather than just translate, it looks more like he rewrote this section based on his own interpretation of the content. Also it sounds way too... metaphysical pseudoscience bullshit. I mean even more than the original.
I've heard people give him shit for terminology but it isn't really the problem here, as long as you're consistent throughout the whole thing.


Original:

―――そうかもしれない。
　抑止力というのはね、我々にとって最大の味方でもあり、同時に最大の敵でもある“方向の修復 者”を指す。
　私達人間は死にたくない。平和でいたい。
　私達のいる星だって死にたくない。長生きしたい。
　抑止力というのはそれだ。霊長という群体の誰もが持つ統一された意識、自分達の世を存続させ たいという願望。我を取り外してヒトという種の本能にある方向性が収束し、カタチになったもの 。それが抑止 力とよばれる カウンターガーディアン。

　そうだな、例えばａという優れた人間が世界征服を行なったとしよう。彼は正義の人で、その統治は理想的で あったとする。人間が人間として見た道徳性の限りでね。

　しかしａの行動がひとりの人間としてではなく、霊長全体の視点から見て悪、つまり滅びの要因 となる場合、 抑止力は具現する。

　コレは霊長の世を存続させたい、というａさえ含めた人類の無意識下の集合体だ。人類を守る為 に人類を拘束するこの存在は、誰も知らないうちに現れ、誰にも観測される事なくａを消滅させる 。人々の無意 識下の渦が作 り上げた代表者は、やはり無意識であるが故に意識されない。

　とはいっても、何もカタチのない意識が呪いになってａを殺す訳ではない。抑止力は、たいてい媒体となりう る人間に宿り、敵となるａを駆逐する。媒体になった人間はａを倒す為だけの能力を持つが、それ 以上の能力は 与えられない。ａにとって代わる事ができないようにね。

　抑止力という霊長全体の意志を受けとめられる受信者、そういった特殊なチャンネルを持つ人間 というのは稀 に存在する。歴史は、これを英雄と呼んでもてはやすんだ。

　だが近代になってこの呼び名は使われないな。文明が発達して、人間が自分達自身を滅ぼすなんて事は簡単に なってしまった。どこぞの企業の会長が全財力を傾けてアマゾンの森林の伐採量を増やせば、一年 後にも地球は 終わる。ほら、いつでもどこでも地球のピンチだろ？　抑止力に衝き動かされて誰も知らないうち に世界を救っ ている、なんて輩はごまんといるんだ。英雄は一世代に一人だけ。世界を救う、なんて程度の事じ ゃあ現代では 英雄とは呼ばれない。

　また、このａが人間の手におえない場合、抑止力は自然現象となってａもろとも周囲を消滅させ る。大昔、ど こぞの大陸が沈んだのもこいつの仕業さ。

　こう話すと人類の守護者そのものなんだが、こいつには人間としての感情がない。時には万人を 幸せにすると いう行為の前に立ち塞がる事もある。

　厄介なのは、こいつが結局人間そのものの代表者だという事だ。我々がそれを認識できなくても 、抑止力は最 強の霊長なんだ。過去幾度となく、ある実験に挑戦した魔術師達の前にはコレが現れ、魔術師達は ことごとく斬殺された」

mew's version, trying to keep it as close as possible. Also changing 'Counter Force' to Deterrent just to see how it sounds...


------Perhaps so.
You see, the Deterrent is that "restorer of direction" which is both our greatest ally, and our greatest enemy.

We humans don't want to die. We want to live in peace.

The planet we live on also doesn't want to die. It wants to live a long life.

That's what the Deterrent is; it's the collective wish of the entire dominant species -- humanity -- to preserve its own existence. The fundamental instinct of the human self, coalesced and given form. That would be the "Counter Guardian" that we call the Deterrent.

For example, let's assume an extraordinary person A has conquered the world. Person A may be a just ruler with a benevolent rule. At least within the terms of common human morality.

But, in the case that Person A's actions are viewed as evil by not an individual but the entire human consciousness -- in other words, an extinction-level threat -- the Deterrent will take effect.

This is the unconscious desire of all of humankind, Person A included, to preserve its own existence. In order to protect humanity, this self-policing entity will manifest itself without anyone's knowledge and, unobserved, annihilate Person A. As a representative entity born in the swirl of the human subconscious, it acts without conscious will of its own.

That said, the formless consciousness does not manifest as some curse that kills Person A. The Deterrent usually channels through nearby humans who will act to exterminate Person A. This human medium is only granted just enough power to defeat Person A, so that it cannot become a threat that replaces person A.

The people that are able to receive the entire will of humanity -- who have the right "channels", so to speak -- are rare. Human history has glorified them as heroes.

But such titles are no longer used in modern times. Civilization has advanced to the point that humanity could easily destroy itself. If a certain company president funneled all of his corporate assets into expanding logging in the Amazon rainforest, the world would end in a year. See, the world is in trouble everywhere and all the time. And whether we know it or not, the Deterrent is constantly at work; in fact it's pushing a lot of friends out there working to save it all the time. There is one hero per generation. Something like saving the world is no longer enough for someone to be called a Hero.

Also, in the case that A cannot be stopped by human hands, the Deterrent will manifest itself as a natural phenomenon and destroy A, as well as the entire surrounding area. This was responsible for sinking that continent long ago.

I make it sound like humanity's guardian, but you should know it has no human emotion. At times, it has prevented things from happening that would have brought happiness to all humankind.

The problem is, in the end, it's still a representative of humanity. Even if you or I can't recognize it as such, the Deterrent is the ultimate form of our dominance as a species. Time and time again, it has appeared before magi performing their experiments, and slaughtered them all.


-----------------

Oh and before you ask "wait I thought the Counter Force works like this" remember that the older explanation in KnK and later stuff in Fate don't match up 100%. People argue about all the time whether it's one or the other, or both, but save that for General.