Tabletop Games Thread

[Mattias]

Is that the thing where you need the whole party to sub to the paid wiki, rather than just the DM?

[Deathhappens]

The words "paid" and "wiki" do not belong in the same sentence.

[pinetree]

The OGL (Open Game License) is the license that allows you to use the basic rules and terms of DnD without having to pay Wizards of the Coast. It exists so people can sell their homebrews, but there are also other games that rely on it (Pathfinder being the biggest one I think).

The OGL 1.1 is the new license they're releasing alongside the new edition of DnD, Gizmodo leaked it, and basically, it isn't open anymore. If you want to publish anything publicly you need to submit it to them first, they get the rights to do whatever they want with it, and also you have to give them 25% of any money you make above 750k.
The new license also has a line deauthorizing the old OGL, so even if you want to make content for older editions you'd have to abide to 1.1.

[Mattias]

Wow, that's shitty.

I wonder if it's going to lead to a bunch of splats that are "wholly different from DnD, because they use 3d6 rather than a d20".

[pinetree]

Depending on how big names like Critical Role respond people might move to a different system. I imagine companies like Paizo are going to work on changing their stuff so they don't rely on the OGL in the future.
This is also just a leak, so they have the opportunity to modify it before the official release now that they've seen the community response.

[warellis]

Anything D&D related, or possibly even Traveller related, may be fucked over by this new license change. And even if WotC/Hasbro does not do anything, the fact that this actually was written means no one is going to trust them to not "alter the deal" on a whim, because they essentially argued that they could declare the OGL 1.0a non-valid and void (despite the OGL writers themselves stating that they never intended for the OGL to be suddenly declared void or whatever by Hasbro & Wizards).

Like under this new license Hasbro & Wizards are pushing, it might be impossible for Paizo to sell any new Pathfinder stuff, for example.

Honestly this sounds like something that would not hold up at all in a court of law, but Wizards & Hasbro, I suspect, are banking on other companies and freelancers being too nervous to actually try to challenge them on this due to the costs.

[mAc Chaos]

Publishers are already withdrawing already published adventures that have been out for years to avoid WotC's wrath, just in case.

[pinetree]

It's a massive loss of trust that they won't recover from, I agree, but I think the brand is strong enough that if they back away people will just keep buying their stuff anyway. Though competitors using the OGL are probably already jumping ship regardless of how this develops.

Honestly this sounds like something that would not hold up at all in a court of law, but Wizards & Hasbro, I suspect, are banking on other companies and freelancers being too nervous to actually try to challenge them on this due to the costs.

Even if they did, they'd need the resources necessary to tackle WotC's legal team which I doubt most people/corps involved in this industry have (at least alone).

Publishers are already withdrawing already published adventures that have been out for years to avoid WotC's wrath, just in case.

Really? Who's done that already?

[Dragos Bee]

Apologies for posting here, but I agree that WoTC's efforts to milk the Tabletop Game hobby dry must be opposed.

Perhaps those with spare cash can start a fund to pay the legal bills of those who want to fight Hasbro in court but cannot afford it on their own?

[Ratman]

Do it. Go full Nintendo. Accelerate.

Have you tried not playing D&D?

[Dragos Bee]

In other news...

What are the probable consequences of giving a True Fae (well, a 'Charlatan' who has had his Fae nature altered or sealed by contact with the God-Machine, but that's pedantic) a copy of Fate/Grand Order, in a story where the Nasuverse exists independently of Chronicles of Darkness and Cross-Universe/Setting contact is possible?

[Mattias]

Do it. Go full Nintendo. Accelerate.

Have you tried not playing D&D?

For the last 10 years. But everyone always wants to go back to the safe familiar thing.

I mean there was article back when Edgerunners came out about how to build cyberpunk classes into 5e. If it was sarcasm, it was so stonefaced I couldn't tell.

[Dragos Bee]

For the last 10 years. But everyone always wants to go back to the safe familiar thing.

I mean there was article back when Edgerunners came out about how to build cyberpunk classes into 5e. If it was sarcasm, it was so stonefaced I couldn't tell.

Condolences.

[Twelveseal]

No point playing a group game if no one else wants to. Hence why everyone plays 5e. Paizo has suggested Pathfinder 2 needs relatively little change to be fine, but this will hit Starfinder and make it impossible to reprint a lot of old shit if it's as bad as it seems. It makes backstock radioactive, too.

[Twelveseal]

No point playing a group game if no one else wants to. Hence why everyone plays 5e. Paizo has suggested Pathfinder 2 needs relatively little change to be fine, but this will hit Starfinder and make it impossible to reprint a lot of old shit if it's as bad as it seems. It makes backstock radioactive, too.

Also of note, the new OGL is essentially claiming to update the old OGL, meaning everything that was ever released under it, and derivatives thereof, are now effectively WotC property in perpetuity, as if they'd been published under the new OGL.This means they're essentially claiming to own Doctor Who, Star Wars, World of Warcraft, Stargate, and a bunch of other IPs, at least for the purposes of publishing content related to them. It is absolutely insane.

[warellis]

Here is an open letter you can sign if you want to see more about how awful this all is: https://www.opendnd.games/

For the largest creators in the industry, WotC is imposing an impossible tax of 25%—based on their total sales above $750K, not profit. This is anti-competitive, monopolistic behavior designed to crush small businesses that collectively employ hundreds of designers, writers, and artists. Under this tax, it becomes impossible for creators to put books on game stores’ shelves or run Kickstarters for large audiences. Even though this only affects some companies in the space, those targeted are still tiny compared to Wizards of the Coast, which made $1.3 billion in 2021. On top of that, games such as Pathfinder 1E and 2E, 13th Age, Fudge, and Traveller—which use the 1.0 OGL as the backbone of their existence—will need to cease sales of upcoming products or give WotC 25% of their revenue to stay in compliance with the new license.

Furthermore, under the new license, virtual tabletops (VTTs) cannot operate. They can no longer support OGL systems, and creators can no longer release modules and adventures on popular digital platforms such as Foundry, Alchemy, or Shard.

If this new license gains wide adoption, the tabletop industry will shrink to a fraction of its current size, shuttering the small businesses that populate your local cons and putting a stop to their creations. Innovation in the gaming industry will evaporate; your favorite games will be trapped in the past, instead of being allowed to migrate to your phone, virtual reality, and beyond. Diversity in the industry will shrink away, as projects from marginalized creators are effectively written out of the future.

This 25% tax potentially may be designed to prevent any new competitors from growing.

Because $750,000 isn't a lot for a small business, especially with taxes and everything.

[Twelveseal]

It's essentially 4e's GSL, but they learned from the mistake that let Paizo's Pathfinder outperform them back then; crush their competitors with royalties, prevent new ones from forming, and steal everyone else's IPs and mechanics is the new name of the game.

One D&D to rule them all.

[Dragos Bee]

This is depressing, especially as I play a game of Godbound online; Godbound is a game that would be directly affected by the new OGL, btw, as it uses a lot of D&D game mechanics and terminology...

[Twelveseal]

That's what a lot of folks are feeling right now.

[Dragos Bee]

That's what a lot of folks are feeling right now.

Indeed; if it's okay to respond with this sentiment.

Seriously, though: The fact that this was even proposed shows WotC are being malevolent.