Can Gilgamesh Summon Himself?

[Under the Hill]

Hi all i am a long time Type Moon Fan. The Fate Series has stolen my heart and as such i am a big Conspiracy nut and like to put my own spins on the established Rules set by the anime and visual novels.

My all time favorite Servant is Gilgamesh and as such I would like to propose a theory that has gotten to the point me and my friends can no longer decide a winner and leave it up to you on this Forum. I ask you to feel free to criticize and support the theory i want to know how plausible it is. Message me or comment and i will attempt to protect and validate my Crazy Theory. So without further Ado I present you with a Theory- Can Gilgamesh Summon Himself

Sporting points- Points to consider before diving into the theory-


1 We can assume that all/ most of the servants have some level of magical ability. This is true due to their Noble Phantasms being in their own right Magic. This is supported by Saber's Admiration for Assassin (Stay Night) When he Preforms his Noble Phantasm without Magic. Due due Saber's surprise at this fact we can assume that Noble Phantasms are magic in nature and require magic to use.
2 Archer's (stay night) identity is Heroic Spirit Emiya/ Future Shiro. Due to this it is established that Heroes can be summoned from any point in time regardless of any Paradox.
3 Caster (stay night) is able to summon Assassin. Establishing that Servants can summon other Servants Given enough Magical Prowess.
4 Fate Extra CCC takes Place after the events of Stay night and Gilgamesh is once again summoned

The Theory-


Based on these Facts Proven by events in the Fate Series It is in fact possible for Gilgamesh to summon himself in another Grail War.
Gilgamesh- Given second life by the Grail in Zero after becoming exposed to the "mud" produced by the Grail before its subsequent destruction at the hands of Saber. Due to this Gilgamesh is no longer a Spirit but a living being. In Fate extra CCC Gilgamesh is summoned once again meaning that even if given life a Spirit can be put back into the "drawing" to be summoned. Also in accordance with Fate Stay Night Servants can be summoned even if an alternate form exists. In a future Holy Grail war Gilgamesh if a strong enough Magi (given that all Spirits have some latent Magical ability) Given that Gilgamesh was strong enough, or that the pool of contestants was small, or the majority of the magi were weak, Gilgamesh could be chosen (as when caster was able to summon Assassin this was due to the poor quality of mages and her own ability) by the Grail and able to Participate in the grail war. Gilgamesh then would be tasked with the summoning. Given the knowledge presented by the Grail and haven been summoned, he will have already had knowledge of the process. By using artifacts from the Gate of Babylon and possibly his own blood he would have no problem establishing a link with his Servant self, and due to his ability to be summoned in multiple classes Gilgamesh could fill multiple slots even if Archer was taken (given that Tohsaka stated that he was surprised that Gilgamesh was summoned in archer and not saber due to his prowess in close combat) Once again as in Stay night with Archer and Shiro Gilgamesh is a Physical being separate now from his servant form he can once again be summoned even by himself!!!


Follow Up- Answering Doubtful friends Critiques-

While yes Gilgamesh is Dead after the events of Stay Night, I simply refereed to this as an example simply attempting to convey that Gilgamesh could have been chosen in Stay night, or in another Grail war if he was again given second life.
While Caster killed assassins master she still herself summon Assassin and used the temple as a Catalyst in order to summon him. And while this may be the case Gilgamesh has been reborn in this scenario and does not fall under the Classification of Servant and as such does not have the same disadvantage.
This is also assuming that Glgamesh Could be chosen By the Grail. This is possible as Shiro was technically a Heroic Spirit and was still able to be selected as a master.
A question has been raised that not being a high ranking Mage Gilgamesh would not be able to support summoning a servant. I argue that he is more than suitable enough, Glgameshn possesses a noble Phantasm and in their own right are magic in nature. The fact that Gilgamesh is able to use the Gate of Babylon multiple times after the Grail war, where he and Kotomine's link was severed (as evident by the removal of his Command Seals) and he no longer supported him with Mana. He is also 2/3 Divine and possessed Immediate Action Rank A (the ability to survive without the aid of a master or mana supply, relying solely on his own Mana) and this should be more than enough to allow for him to call forth a servant. (and arguably allow his servant self to survive even if his own mana is not enough.

The Final Question one might have is Why would you think this up in the first place??? The reason is simple iI over analyze way to much but mainly because Gilgamesh is so amazing how could the world not be any better with two of them!

[Siriel]

-Gilgamesh.
-Willingly introducing more than one of something at any time.

Think about the basic idea for a second.

[orangetunes]

Yes, he can.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread...e-bloody-OP%29

1. Noble Phantasms aren't magic like you think they're magic.
2. Yes.
3. Caster literally hacked the Grail to do so and came up with a false Servant. She does not actually "qualify."
4. Fate/Extra CCC does not take place "after" the events of stay night, but separate from.

[MissingMandible]

Yes, he can.

Shut up, June.

[hinode]

Depends on how much Nasu feels like wanking Gil when you him.

[forumghost]

Depends on how much Nasu feels like wanking Gil when you him.

So... You're saying he can then?

[Siriel]

Depends on how much Nasu feels like wanking Gil when you him.

Well, really the only reason why he mightn't be able would be the fact that he doesn't have magic circuits, but Caster shows they aren't required to connect to the Grail.

So the only real reason why he couldn't would be because it would be wow level of out of character.

[Under the Hill]

1 I understand that Noble Phantasms are not purely magic in nature however i was merely trying to establish that Gilgamesh was a least a competent mage and possessed some type of Mana reserve allowing for him to be able o summon a servant.
3 While this is true that she did hack the Grail it is simply a means to show that Servants have the potential though ideally Gilgamesh would be reborn as a human at this point in he theory. It was more for the potential.
4 Fate Extra CCC takes place in a similar universe Diverged from events in Stay night, and again this is simply an example showing that even when given life Servants are not taken out of rotation and are able to be summoned again even after "winning" the Grail

[Siriel]

1 I understand that Noble Phantasms are not purely magic in nature however i was merely trying to establish that Gilgamesh was a least a competent mage

NPs have nothing to do with being a magus, or skill at magecraft. When Saber is amazed by Assassin, it's because he broke into the realm of the Second through pure skill and equalled a Noble Phantasm with something that shouldn't even involve any supernatural element.

and possessed some type of Mana reserve allowing for him to be able o summon a servant.

Prana. And if you wanted to establish that, you should've pointed to Heaven's Feel where it's pointed out that his magical energy reserve is bullshit even compared to other Servants.

4 Fate Extra CCC takes place in a similar universe Diverged from events in Stay night, and again this is simply an example showing that even when given life Servants are not taken out of rotation and are able to be summoned again even after "winning" the Grail

We know. This is basic stuff.

[You]

Seeing as

CCC

Gilgamesh has command spells in his treasury

and probably some NP that can hack the grail.
Yeah don't see why he couldn't. Don't know why he would want to though.

Most of these "can gilgamesh" questions are "yes, but i doubt he would actually do that."

[Reiu]

this thread


I find it funny that Under the Hill would bring up CCC without bringing up how

so it's been more than a year since CCC, are we still spoilering it or not

Gil just randomly pulls out three Command Spells with literally no explanation but "Who do you think I am?" (exact words)

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Sniped.

[You]

(given that Tohsaka stated that he was surprised that Gilgamesh was summoned in archer and not saber due to his prowess in close combat)

Does anyone know if this is fanon or where it is from? Because Shirou's like "Gil sucks compared to Seibah close combat"

[Paitouch]

this thread


I find it funny that Under the Hill would bring up CCC without bringing up how

so it's been more than a year since CCC, are we still spoilering it or not

Gil just randomly pulls out three Command Spells with literally no explanation but "Who do you think I am?" (exact words)

Maybe if you stopped being lazy and finished your CCC LP, people could have reference for this stuff. Gosh.

[Reiu]

so pushy. Gosh.

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it takes time to produce quality work ok

give me another ten years or so and maybe someone will have localized it and save me the trouble

[Siriel]

Does anyone know if this is fanon or where it is from?

Tokiomi was just annoyed by the fact that Gilgamesh was an Archer at all, because Independent Action screwed up his plan.

Because Shirou's like "Gil sucks compared to Seibah close combat"

Being fair, that's the same scene where Shirou goes "SABER WILL WIN" and "WE'VE GOT HIM" while Gil is standing there laughing and bouncing Excalibur off his armor.

And then when he starts actually fighting back Saber is the one pushed back by his "pull a random magical weapon and swing!" tactic.

So Shirou is not really giving an entirely objective opinion in that scene.

[mAc Chaos]

this thread is amazing

what a concept lol

[You]

Tokiomi was just annoyed by the fact that Gilgamesh was an Archer at all, because Independent Action screwed up his plan.



Being fair, that's the same scene where Shirou goes "SABER WILL WIN" and "WE'VE GOT HIM" while Gil is standing there laughing and bouncing Excalibur off his armor.

And then when he starts actually fighting back Saber is the one pushed back by his "pull a random magical weapon and swing!" tactic.

So Shirou is not really giving an entirely objective opinion in that scene.

Oh Tokiomi. Damn, when someone says Tohsaka I think Rin.

It's said again in UBW.

"Exactly. …You will need to give your absolute best, but just keep him busy. We'll come help you as soon as we stop the Holy Grail."
"Hold on. That's reckless. Saber won't be a match for him.
She can't keep him busy."
http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20221/28-UBW15-06-33.jpg
"True. He is a strong enemy, but I will not lose easily if I go into defense.
Please tell me what that opinion is based on."

"Oh, that's not what I meant. From what I see, Saber's stronger than him.
I'm sure of it. I'll bet on it too."

"You can't beat him as long as you're a heroic spirit.
…Yeah, Saber won't lose if he only had the same Noble Phantasm as Saber. We don't even need to compare the two's skills as swordsmen."

"But his power isn't power as an 'individual'. A soldier can't beat war itself no matter how strong he is, right?
He's a heroic spirit of that kind. You'll be defeated unless you're a 'war' just like him."

[Siriel]

It's said again in UBW.

She's better with a sword no doubt.

But since he can fight okay with anything in GoB (and they can have any random effect), she gets overwhelmed even if he doesn't swordspam.

It's something that people who talk about how he sucks in close combat like to overlook - dude can literally grab any random weapon and do alright with it.

[Tobias]

Its more like he gets overwhelmed, swords spams to get clear, gets overwhelmed, sword spams until clear, repeat until he gets bored of making saber look good.