Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[food]

英霊には、伝説上のもの、実在したもの、観測され なかったものがおり、信仰が薄いものは“守護者”という大きな分類に含まれ、意思のない“抑止 力"として行 使される。本編に登場する英霊の中で“守護者"として機能している者はアーチャーのみ。 他の英霊たちは神性が高かったり、人間側ではなく星よりの存在になっている為、守護者に取り込まれずに済ん でいる。

"Among Heroic Spirits, there are ones who are legendary, ones who actually existed, as well as ones who were not actually observed nor recorded. Those who are seldom worshiped fall into the broad category of 'Guardians'. They are used as a "Counter Force" without a will.
Among the Heroic Spirits debuted in this story, only Archer had the role of 'Guardian'.
Due to having high Divinity, other Heroic Spirits are not on humans' side. Rather, they are on the side of the Planet. However, Guardians are not included in this particular category."


For some context about the "different types" of true Heroic Spirits.

[nununu]

So why do you say that the Throne is common for all parallel verses then? Aren't Counter Guardians also on the Throne? How can they be shared among different versions of Alaya?

Outside the bounds of space and time, remember?

[food]

So the question is, is there only one Spiral of Origin, or is there one Spiral of Origin for each universe?

[Junky]

Outside the bounds of space and time, remember?

Yes, I am aware of that. The only reason I ask is because Counter Guardians are also inducted to the Throne of Heroes but they serve Alaya. And Alaya, as the will of humanity, has to change from world to world because people will be different... or it would be an identical world.

Actually, I was already told that there is no consensus on this by teraablaze, but I needed to change the topic and TypeWannabe seemed to have a strong opinion that lured me in.

So the question is, is there only one Spiral of Origin, or is there one Spiral of Origin for each universe?

What is your opinion? I'm new to this argument (that's why I asked) so I don't really have anything but questions yet.

[food]

Find out in Complete Material 453675821476.

[nununu]

Considering that it's atemporal and that one can gain the understanding of the operation of parallel worlds from it, I think it safer to assume that's it's the first. Plus, there's the fact that it's called 'Spiral of Origin' in a setting where multiverse is the rule of thumb...

Yes, I am aware of that. The only reason I ask is because Counter Guardians are also inducted to the Throne of Heroes but they serve Alaya. And Alaya, as the will of humanity, has to change from world to world because people will be different... or it would be an identical world.

EMIYA was summoned in the 5th War. I think that's a relevant point.

[TypeWannabe]

Actually, I was already told that there is no consensus on this by teraablaze, but I needed to change the topic and TypeWannabe seemed to have a strong opinion that lured me in.

Don't let that fool you, I have a strong opinion about just about all the major recurring discussions that go on in General Discussions. Thankfully, since this is one of the few conversations that are new to this version of BL, if you go back far enough in this thread (certainly no more than 1500 I would imagine) you will find it. Or use that accursed search feature.

[Junky]

Don't let that fool you, I have a strong opinion about just about all the major recurring discussions that go on in General Discussions. Thankfully, since this is one of the few conversations that are new to this version of BL, if you go back far enough in this thread (certainly no more than 1500 I would imagine) you will find it. Or use that accursed search feature.

Haha, I did use it but my search for "throne of heroes" gave me too many posts that had nothing to do with what I wanted. I was not even aware it had been discussed when I asked it, so sorry about that. I'll go look for it now.

EMIYA was summoned in the 5th War. I think that's a relevant point.

Or does that mean that he changed his own fate but could not remove himself? After all, he did think that a strong enough paradox could wipe him out.

For that matter, would every world diverging from the time of King Arthur suddenly disappear if she made her wish? I'm guessing that this has been discussed before too.

[food]

Archer could be a pretty powerful piece of evidence for "only one Akasha" if you can prove there is only one Heroic Emiya in the Throne, or that Heroic Emiya is a blend of many Emiyas.

However, you can prove neither with the information we have, so you can't really reject the "multiple Akasha" theory people are peddling.

[TypeWannabe]

However, you can prove neither with the information we have, so you can't really reject the "multiple Akasha" theory TypeWannable is peddling.

I'm metaphorically coughing up blood right now.

[Dartz]

Due to having high Divinity, other Heroic Spirits are not on humans' side. Rather, they are on the side of the Planet.

A Divine/Heroic Spirits' divine blood comes from the planet's side? Wasn't it because humans worshipped them?

[food]

I'm metaphorically coughing up blood right now.

I forgot which side you were on, lol. Do forgive my error.

A Divine/Heroic Spirits' divine blood comes from the planet's side? Wasn't it because humans worshipped them?

They still originate from human wishes, but their Divinity can get so very high, they serve the World more so than humans.

There's that CM3 question in which Nasu pointed out some of them actually qualify for Elemental and Divine Spirit despite being Heroic Spirits.

[TypeWannabe]

WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN THE REST OF THE SERVANT PROFILES FOR CM3?! I could understand the first time you stopped, but why haven't you restarted?!

[food]

It seems my Origin is "never finish anything".

OTZ

[Tobias]

Not that I would mind seeing the other servant profiles, quite the opposite actually, but you are kinda bouncing off the walls tonight TW

[TypeWannabe]

It is either my subtle way of helping out a friend by trying to defuse rapidly rising tensions and overflowing resentment by trying to frantically dredge up a topic that interested me quite a bit the last time we had it, or I've done too many recreational drugs and am currently in somewhat serious danger of blood vessels bursting.

[Dartz]

They still originate from human wishes, but their Divinity can get so very high, they serve the World more so than humans.

There's that CM3 question in which Nasu pointed out some of them actually qualify for Elemental and Divine Spirit despite being Heroic Spirits.

I see, thanks for clarifying.

[food]

Q: What kind of role does the World give to Heroic Spirits that aren't Guardians (Counter Guardians)? Also, what do magi call people with high divinity or are closer to the planet?
A: Heroic Spirits that aren't Guardians are simply treated as traditions that lend power to the later people. Those that became closer to the planet don't mix well with people so they fall into the categories of Divine Spirits and Elementals.

Ya, it's this one. It actually came up early in the IRC melee, so I remembered it.

[TypeWannabe]

Like all the great Greco-Roman heroes, and indeed, legendary heroes of all time, Heracles goes both ways.

[Five_X]

I think it's on the 25th that this thing is supposed to be publicly released, right? Or sometime around then.

It should be interesting! Or hilarious.

Or utterly boring and benign.