Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Reign]

I want to say it's shown up elsewhere post-GO too but it definitely started in GO.

I used to think it was just a name for the Servant vessel things, like "oh this temporary body created by the Grail to shove a piece of a Heroic Spirit into is called a Saint Graph", but then they started using it for stuff besides Servants.

I'm not looking at events but in the main story the earliest I can find to using it for non-Servants is the Lion King in Camelot.

Dr. Roman: It was King Arthur's knights, the Knights of the Round Table, who annihilated the Crusaders and built a Holy City upon the Holy Land!

Fujimaru 1: The Arthur we met in Singularity F!?


Fujimaru 2: The Arthur we met in London!?


Dr. Roman: No, this one's different.


Dr. Roman: The Spirit Origin output observed from that Servant just now was far beyond that of King Arthur in our data!

Also in the climax Romani says Bedivere does not have one so normal living humans don't.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait actually I didn't look at the context of my ctrl+F-ing, I saw "Spirit Origin" and "beyond King Arthur" and jumped the gun. Roman is talking about Gawain there. Disregard me.

[Petrikow]

Combing through the script some more...

Heroic Spirits and Divine Spirits both seem to need them to be active.

But it's more like a sort of interface for nominally spiritual beings to interact with the world. It has the furigana "Class" in London, so it's pretty much just indicating the vessel of the Heroic Spirit. Putting it another way, Heroic Spirit + Saint Graph = Servant.

Well, that's how I'll choose to see it for now, at least.

[Nanaya]

With the implication that Earth's concept of death is an Earth-only thing, I assume that ORT's body is 100% physical.

Are you saying rather than upgrading her SG to something else or a better one she's taking her SG and shoving it into ORT's armored body?
Layer 1: Heroic Spirit, Incorporeal Elemental
Layer 2: Get a "Frame": Servant, Incarnated Elemental(Species like True Ancestor who've gained autonomy. I know incarnated implies getting a flesh body but a TA walking around the Millenium Castle probably counts?)
Layer 3: Get a corporeal flesh body. Gil, Elemental manifesting in the outer world.

Basically the difference between side grading @ layer 2 and going to layer 3?

[Comun]

I think so, pretty much.

[GDB]

I want to say it's shown up elsewhere post-GO too but it definitely started in GO.

Probably Fate/Extra Links?

[Rockxas]

There's a chance it's actually just Chaldea-exclusive nomenclature. I'm fairly certain it didn't even show up until F/GO introduced it. For something to be that fundamental, and not have been mentioned seems rather bizarre.

When FGO came out some people with knowledge of Japanese looked into it and found the term elsewhere.

I knew I recognized Saint Graph from somewhere.

The purpose of the Minor Grail (read as: Symbol) was to summon the benevolent souls known as Heroic Spirits.
The underground Greater Grail (read as: Saint Graph) was used to store a large number of souls.

:OOOOOOO

Because people who can't read the web page won't know what you mean -- the official Nasu-term for the Servant cards is "Saintgraph." This is repeated several times in the article, like they don't want us to forget that. (I just wrote it that way because who is Graph, and why is he/she a Saint?)

Likely parallel to Moon-Cellular Automaton = Seven Heavens Artgraph = Holy Grail of the Seven Heavens ??????

damn, it's finally all coming together!

[manafusion]

Technically, Kotomine never says ORT has one.

He calls it simply a vessel, at which point Muramasa intercedes and says Olga's current Saint Graph is the best you can get on Earth.

Even if Olga's current vessel is a Saint Graph, doesn't mean it has to stay that way, I guess?

I see. So, there's a possibility of possession at play here as well.

Off-topic: That Dartz and Petri are both using Roa avatars of differing positions is kinda funny, ngl.

[Petrikow]

When FGO came out some people with knowledge of Japanese looked into it and found the term elsewhere.

I was thinking specifically about 霊基 ('Spirit Origin' in NA). The relationship between that and the word 'Saint Graph' is actually a bit complicated, but I digress.

That said, the way Artograph is used actually doesn't have a lot to do with the concept at all, perhaps aside from telling us that Nasu likes using the word 'Graph'. It ties in to the purpose of humanity and the observation of the universe, rather than some concrete lore. It's more of a thematic element.

[Reign]

Wait, is Saint Graph not just the ruby for Spirit origin? I thought that's all it was, like Realty Marble vs innate bounded field.

[Petrikow]

Wait, is Saint Graph not just the ruby for Spirit origin? I thought that's all it was, like Realty Marble vs innate bounded field.

Nope, hasn't appeared like that. It's an inferred thing. Might not even be proper.

[Lily Emilio]

Wait, is Saint Graph not just the ruby for Spirit origin? I thought that's all it was, like Realty Marble vs innate bounded field.

There are 霊基, 霊基グラフ,

セイントグラフ

地下大聖杯

,

セイントグラフ進化

霊基再臨

. In a lot of cases when 霊基 or 霊基グラフ, it is to refer to servants summoned by Chaldea (like Kirschtaria said it is a Chaldea thing). However it is also used for entities not even servants, in which, to my understanding, 霊基 should be understood more like literally "spirit origin" or spiritual foundation/base of an entity than a servant. The wild variety of usages make it quite hard to say for sure in which situation it is being used to talk about servant saint graph or just spirit frame in general that many entities have. Such as in the case of Arcueid profile since the context is comparing her as a servant to her as not a servant, the 霊基 there can be understood as servant saint graph. But because it is already used to talk about other beings having nothing to do with servants or ether bodies, you can also say that well maybe it's about 霊基 in general.

[Petrikow]

As far as out-of-story stuff (?) is concerned, Saint Graph always refers to the Servant's card. So on that website Rockxas indirectly cited it says:

サーヴァントが宿るカードを「セイントグラフ」と呼びます。
Cards which hold Servants within them are called Saint Graphs.

So like, you'd infer that with the 霊基一覧 ('Spirit Origin List', I think it is in NA?) being a collection of these cards, that 霊基 = Saint Graph.
This sort of makes sense given that early in F/GO's story, Andersen quite literally equates the 霊基 ('Spirit Origin') with the class of the Servant. You then look at the back of the card, and lo and behold, there's an image of the corresponding class there.

What sort of muddles the water is 霊基グラフ ('Spirit Origin Graph'?), which is introduced in Part 2, and seems to equate to the contents of the briefcase with all your Servants or whatever. Basically a collection of all your 'Spirit Origins'. Then of course, there's the question of why everything and their mom suddenly has them in F/GO. But hey, I mean somehow everything has also been given classes, so maybe this is just how F/GO works. If you have a class, you have a card, therefore 'Spirit Origin'?

[Lily Emilio]

Well the 霊基一覧 list also have all of the Beasts so in the context of game information database it can be just the devs using it to also contain the main big bad's information for the players, and they did use 霊基 when measuring Tiamat in Babylonia. But back then you can sorta argue that well the Beast class is tied to the origin of the heroic summoning system anyways and you can summon Beast candidate into Beast-class like VI being summoned in prototype so technically they are there as a summoned individual with a unique and superior saint graph to your standard servant that requires the assistance of individuals rocking Grand saint graph to defeat. Now it's lmao everyone has a saint graph and everyone has a class even if they are alien spaceship.

I guess it all started with Extella when Velber have their own Classes. Back then the argument I've seen was that it's a Moon Cell thing, it can classify things made by its same creator. But now? Would not be surprised if ORT shows up in Ultimate One class. Or maybe it's gonna be just Foreigner class but "super duper high rank" like Ruler Zeus and Ruler QSH.

[Nanaya]

Mistakes were made and the RPG bleed was too strong. As for everything arbitrarily having a class... watch ORT actually be Saber because of those 30 meter foot scimitars.

[castor212]

i have now realized what is meant by arjuna alter unga bunga big numbers OP

[fumei]

Welcome

[Red Dingo]

I honestly think U-Olga was just a distraction now and her trying to get ORT as vessel is biting off more than she can chew. The whole idea behind its design is that it was an absurdly strong bonus boss that throws any sort of balance and fairness out the window. I think the plot of the Lostbelt will be U-Olga trying to hijack it, Daybit trying to pursue his own agenda involving it, and Chaldea just trying to locate the Tree of Emptiness of Lostbelt 7 and using Excalibur to wipe out Beast VII. It will culminate with them fighting it in a stall tactic...possibly with Daybit and Grand Berserker's help. Cutting down the Tree and facing off against a U-Olga weakened by Grand Saber Artoria. Beating her though reveals the real big bad that she was a patsy for...probably an ascended Marisbury.

After that, you can challenge ORT at full strength with powers set up as the hardest fight in the game thus far...and players will still post Youtube videos where they cheese it.

[Exhaunted]

I don't know, I feel like Lostbelt 7 having a tree is kinda unlikely considering what's been said so far about it.

[Kirishima]

I'll have what he's having

[Red Dingo]

I don't know, I feel like Lostbelt 7 having a tree is kinda unlikely considering what's been said so far about it.

The said they couldn't find a Tree there. Doesn't mean there isn't one, though chances are that there's weird $#!% going on with it. However, I'm using the term Tree for lack of a better term for whatever is keeping the Lostbelt from eroding.