Create-a-Servant

[AsGryffynn]

Nah, I don't believe that last part is meant to be taken literally.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

Nope, age and legend equal power in Nasuverse. It's how swords that were used to kill dragons then become NPs specially effective against them or beings like them, for one. Such as Arondight.

[AsGryffynn]

As in, "it literally created the world" because a sword can't create the world. Being so powerful it seems that way is a completely different story.

[Five_X]

silly swords you can't create worlds

[Christemo]

Yes, like that, which means that;

Gil can do whatever the fuck he wants! NUMBER 1 NASUVERSE RULE!

Well he's not far off. Having every Noble Phantasm with a physical form kinda does that. Gil probably has Noble Phantasms designed for making toast, walking dogs and invoking Godwin's Law in just as great an abundance as swords.

[AsGryffynn]

He has a Phantasm that regenerates lost Phantasms. You don't get more troll than that!

Still, has anyone reviewed Bolivar's revamped status sheet? I tried to keep his battle parameters high because he's a Saber. He's supposed to excel in that area, but turned down the rest. Still, no way I'm going below Lancer. That'd be Counter-Guardian level, and he's supposed to be a genuine Heroic Spirit.

[Kyte]

I thought what he had was a NP that collected the stuff he fired.

[AsGryffynn]

Yeah, I was not being precise.

[Knick]

Still, has anyone reviewed Bolivar's revamped status sheet? I tried to keep his battle parameters high because he's a Saber. He's supposed to excel in that area, but turned down the rest. Still, no way I'm going below Lancer. That'd be Counter-Guardian level, and he's supposed to be a genuine Heroic Spirit.

NP stat rank and NP rank don't match up.

Endurance way to high. Herc is not even that high, and he is Herc.

No reason to have prana burst (he is relatively modern and therefor has no inborn potential that allows it, like Saber's dragon reactor, or Karna's fire attribute).

Natural body makes no sense, he is of human origin and has no reason to possess it (the only other example has divine heritage).

His NP should not be able to provent activation of more powerful mysteries, that's how mysteries work the stronger ones come out on top. Change it to all NP's equal or lower rank, considering things higher then B-rank are actually suppose to be somewhat rare and even then he still has the terrain advantage.

Why does he have A-rank riding? There is no reason for him to have it since anything he could have to ride could be used with B-rank. That's just rank inflation.

Should not have 3 A-rank stats, that's still rather extraordinary even as a Saber. 2 would be much more reasonable.

4 personal skills is herk level (he currently has 5), he should have around 3. Considering Prana Burst and Natural body don't really make sense they would be good candidates for removal.

There ya go.

[Spinach]

4 personal skills is herk level (he currently has 5), he should have around 3.

It's silly to critique something for going to five personal skills since there's really no way to determine how many personal skills a Servant can have, and because canon has already set a precedent of having five different personal skills in one Servant. Medusa also has four, Cu Chulainn has five, Saber has three. It's not something's proportional to a Servant's actual power. They're a measure of skills that the individual possesses(Projectile), or peculiar attributes they have (like Divinity). That said, if there is no basis for the possession of a skill then that's fine to critique.

(I didn't read the sheet but wanted to chip in on this)

edited to further elaborate on point

[BlackField]

Still, no way I'm going below Lancer. That'd be Counter-Guardian level, and he's supposed to be a genuine Heroic Spirit.

How'd you work that out?

[Schattenbach]

Read the current discussion and felt like creating a sufficiently broken Servant. Didn´t bother to spellcheck the text while or after writing it, though, and didn´t even feel like properly rereading it, so there may be some critical errors lurking around. Here it is.

Name: Trickster Archetype

Identity:

The embodyment of the whole Trickster Archetype, embodying humans nature to rebel against the gods, to change and to advance through further understanding by being unbound by the current state of the world. While supposedly only containing human heroes, that´s not strictly true, as personification of Trickery contains the aspects of trickster deities and such primordial existences as well.

Personality:

Befitting the embodyment of the trickster archetype itself, Trickster-tans personality is just as changing as it´s mode, and as such, the desctiption of "being highly chaotic" and "prone to compulsive trolling" (more like acting like a gadfly than outright trolling, though) seems highly adequat. Although much more friendly toward humanity than the gods themself, the tendency to pull pranks and cause chaos to teach a lesson or to change the rules or for the hell of it is still troublesome, and as such, will not evil in nature, Trickster-tan isn´t a fully good person either.

Apperance:

As a shapeshifter, apperance is meaningless.

Class: Assassin

Servant Stats:

Alightment: Chaotic neutral

Strength: C
Endurance: C
Agility: A+
Mana: A
Luck: EX

Class Skills:

Presence Concealment: A+

Personal Skills:

Animal Dialogue: A
Charisma: A+
Divinity: A++
Independent Action: A
Mental Pollution: EX
Pioneer of the Stars: EX
Self-Modification: A
Shapeshifting: EX

Noble Phantasm:

Ultimate Theft
Rank: EX
Type: ???

Condensing one of the most fundamental aspects of sapient life (or even life at a whole, no matter it´s sapience), be it animals, humanity or for example those created or disorted by humanity - like divine spirits, who,
originally embodying aspects of the world, over time grew closer to humanity in terms of apperance, personality amd behavior, if they didn´t directly originate from humanity to begin with, that is -, this Noble Phantasm provides a reason for the very existence of deceit and trickery: That is, to get an oppturnity to obtain something, be it the fullfilment of an personal goal or something in the possession of someone other, reached through the very acts of exploitation and thievery.

As sapient life no matter it´s form continues existing by taking from others, it´s not exactly unexpected that the most advanced sapient life living on earth evolved thivery the most and at the same time depends on and thrieves on thievery the most. Be it humans stealing from humans, or humans stealing from gods or humans stealing from the world, thus waging wars of conquest on every scale against each other or angering gods or plundering and destroying the planet in the process of what they do.

In a way, could be considered to be the oldest Noble Phantasm, embodying the very way life works and as such, being possibly at least as old as live itself. Even the creation of the current earth by Ea could be, depending on the point of view, be considered a theft as the primordial existence that did it already possessed sapient intelligence and the very act itself of reshaping the planet according the gods will took the planets chance away to cool and shape itself on it´s own according to natural law or the chance of another god to shape the planet on it´s own.

Omnipotent in what it does, this Noble Phantasm allows to steal everything in existence no matter what and no matter what it is (even if it´s conceptual in nature), though the closer something is related to Akasha, the more difficult it becomes to actually steal it.

This Noble Phantasm works similiar to "collect and use" concepts by warping reality to obtain and place whatever´s supposed to be stolen by it within the within the Noble Phantasm in a transcedent space outside space-time itself in which never anything ever changes. After something got stolen, it´s completly traped within the Noble Phantasm and the only option to act ineract with whatever it is is by "throwing it away", though the actual act and manner in which something is thrown away can be decided by the user of this Noble Phantasm at will, thus possibly even changing the composition and nature of whatever got stolen to a limited degree.

Since it´s a omnipotent power in the hand of someone not omnipotent, handeling this Noble Phantasm is quite difficult, because of which several restrictions apply.

As mentioned before, the closer something is related to Akasha, the more difficult it is to be affected by the use of this Noble Phantasm, and the more abstract something it the more time it takes to successfully activate and use this Noble Phantasm, as the what is to be stolen has to be defined first, and depending on the general scale of use, the process may become more difficult yet again and the greater the scale, the greater the Prana costs per use. Since theft isn´t supposed to kill by itself, this Noble Phantasm cannot cause death as a direct consequence of it´s use.

Some examples to elaborate how this Noble Phantasm works and how where it´s limits of use apply:

While unable to directly kill, there are several different ways to cause death after the actual theft itself. One of the most basic examples would be to steal a
weapon and throw it away it at enemies as to wound them or to throw it in ones own hand to use it to kill someone. Or to throw a stolen Noble Phantasm along with it´s ownership away in the own hand as to be free to use it as one pleases. More complex examples would be to "steal the light radiated by the stars", and to throw it away as incredible intense beams of light, or to "steal the fire from the gods", as in legends, and throw the stolen fire, a divine mystery beyond mortal reach and older than civilization itself, at ones enemies to burn them to ash, or even to "steal the moon from the sky" and then to throw it at ones enemies, smashing them with the incredible might of a celestial body.

More indirect means to kill someone could be considered to, for example, literally "steal someones soul": Because the Noble Phantasm cannot kill directly, yet the Noble Phantasm can still "steal everything", the soul is stolen but the body without soul still acts as if the stolen soul is still within the body in terms of vital functions that gurantee life. Thus expelling the soul - which is automaticially put into a container to gurantee preservation - from the Noble Phantasm and devouring, stabbing, crushing, ripping it in pieces or otherwise destroying it will likely result in the death of the person whose hearth got stolen. Stealing something like that, however, will still result in the loose of whatever additional benefits it provides (like Magic Circuites) and since life and especially the soul can be considered to be naturally close to Akasha, using the Noble Phantasm like that isn´t exactly easy.

There are also plenty of ways to sufficently weaken someone as to simply make them easier to kill. One such possibelity is to steal Od and Prana to sufficently weaken someone, though the amount stolen cannot be enough for a lifeform to die as a direct result or for a spiritual existence to be unable to keep existing because of lack of means to do so. Another way is to "steal a targets" luck as when all their luck is stolen, bad things that might finally cause their death like it´s natural as they are extremly more likely to happen.

What this Noble Phantasm steals also depends on the actual definition they employ, as for example, "stealing someones time", could be interpreted in at least
two different ways: Temporally "Stealing someones sense of time", thus making them unable to mentally keep up with the things that happen around them or to literally "steal someones time", thus taking some of their time away, which may - depending on the way it gets stolen - slow them down in time, as with less time to use, they cannot keep up with the slower time flow around them. Another example would be the way some things are definied. The act of "stealing someones secret" doesn´t necessarily erase the persons who´s secret got stolen memory, as "stealing someones secret" simply indicates that someone other now also knows about it. By exploiting such facts, duplication of knowledge becomes possible, too, as the meaning of the act of stealing and the way whatever it is thrown away can be twisted quite excessively

A sufficiently twisted meaning of "stealing someones apperance" may, for example, allow for someone to take on the exactly same apperance as another person as a disguise that cannot be penetrated by magical means, as in a perfect case of identity theft, without the person who´s apperance got stolen suffering any effect at all, as otherwise "stealing someones apperance" would be equaling completly "taking their identity away" and thus more or less "killing them" or rather "ending their current life" without being left with another, thus resulting in the same, which cannot be done by using this Noble Phantasm.

Thanks to the way it works, the act of "stealing" isn´t a bad act in and itself, as it can be easily used for something benefitical like "stealing someones "injuries", "stealing someones illness", "stealing the curse that slowely chips away someones life bit by bit" or to "take away someones pain", be it physical or emtional. As it can be stored within the Noble Phantasm forever, stealing it can be considered the same as curing it. Though after it has been stolen, it can be employed as weapon as well, by throwing it at someone or something to let them suffer the same of those from whom it has been taken away.

The Noble Phantasm is also able to excessively affect the state of the mind, for example by "stealing someones will to fight" or by "stealing someones drive to life" or by "stealing someones anger away from them", thus making them suffer an incredible heavy blow to their moral. As what´s stolen is only what´s currently there, the effect of stealing something like that can be considered to be only temporary as something like that can always be recovered fully, even if it takes some time.

When faced with Servants, this Noble Phantasm is even able to shake the very fundation of the Holy Grail War that ensures a Servants loyality, by stealing the command spells carried by someone, thus making the Master unable to force his Servant to servitude therefore forcing him to appeal to his Servants goodwill.

It´s also noteworthy that indicating the act of theft decreases the Prana costs and difficulty to definie the theft itself considerably, and the closer the act of theft is simulated, the greater the ease of use. So it´s quite a bit easier to steal someones clothes by touching them as it is otherwise and by touching some- ones head (or even better, his brain), stealing their memories may become considerably easier as well.

[AsGryffynn]

How'd you work that out?

That'd give me a Saber with C ranked physical stats. We have an Archer that was genuinely C-D ranked. A Saber should have, at the very least, physical B ranked statistics.

No reason to have prana burst (he is relatively modern and therefor has no inborn potential that allows it, like Saber's dragon reactor, or Karna's fire attribute).

Is there any particular requirement to have it? I have to make it potentially possible for him to be able to win, say, an hypothetical repeat of the 5th HGW, otherwise, I'd be making fodder.

[Lycodrake]

That'd give me a Saber with C ranked physical stats. We have an Archer that was genuinely C-D ranked. A Saber should have, at the very least, physical B ranked statistics.

The Class container is more of a guideline.

Is there any particular requirement to have it?

Re-read what Knick said about Arturia and Karna.

[AsGryffynn]

The Class container is more of a guideline.

Re-read what Knick said about Arturia and Karna.

Still not making him STR C. That'd nerf his capacity to fight off Heracles. While no stronger, he should have the potential to fight off anyone, like any other servant.

What's the specific requirement for prana burst, because as far as I recall, it's just a jet of prana.

[Arch-Magos Winter]

Then look at my Lancer Longinus profile. He doesn't have the A rank agility the class container suggests.

>Ability to fight off anyone
>True Assassin
>Able to do shit to Herk
...PFFFFT

[Lycodrake]

Still not making him STR C. That'd nerf his capacity to fight off Heracles.

You say this like most Servants are capable of this.

[AsGryffynn]

Then look at my Lancer Longinus profile. He doesn't have the A rank agility the class container suggests.

>Ability to fight off anyone
>True Assassin
>Able to do shit to Herk
...PFFFFT

Considering EMIYA can do shit to Herc and I'm not making an Assassin, I don't think that's overpowered. I don't make fodder.

You say this like most Servants are capable of this.

For a Saber, C ranked strength should be unusually low. EMIYA has D ranked strength and he's a counter-guardian Archer!

[Five_X]

Some Servants just aren't cut out for it, generally. Most Servants aren't cut out for fighting Herakles. Almost all Servants aren't cut out for fighting Gilgamesh.

[AsGryffynn]

Some Servants just aren't cut out for it, generally. Most Servants aren't cut out for fighting Herakles. Almost all Servants aren't cut out for fighting Gilgamesh.

The point is making someone versatile enough to be able to overcome virtually everything in some way or another. The guy's goal was to unify a continent, he freed South America and has spurred a movement in third-world countries. If he doesn't has mythical backup, shouldn't he compensate by having large amounts of deeds to his name?

I want to make it so he's stat-wise, at least capable of pushing back Diarmuid or Cu Chulainn. Otherwise, summoning him (and therefore making his profile) would be meaningless as he would be fodder despite having such powerful influence.