Well, I don't mean statwise, but ability wise. Just having a one time Gae Buidhe is pretty weak, isn't it.
Well, I don't mean statwise, but ability wise. Just having a one time Gae Buidhe is pretty weak, isn't it.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Gotta agree with mAc here. Besides, even if they can be used multiple-times doesn't make them overpowered much.Originally Posted by mAc Chaos
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Yeah, but he's basically one step short from Herakles, and I don't really think that he would be that strong...He's one of the first humans, and earlier = better.
That's why I gave him a lot of knives... And I didn't really think of another Noble Phantasm suitable for him. Do you have any ideas?Well, I don't mean statwise, but ability wise. Just having a one time Gae Buidhe is pretty weak, isn't it.
Cain is... way too strong for being an Assassin. If I presume Natural Body is already included in his listed parameters then when he's fighting to kill (which should realistically be most of the time in a serious war) he has stat totals of 360. If we assume Natural Body Ranks Up Strength and Agility to A then his Stat Total becomes 400 under The First Murderer. For reference, Heracles was running a stat total of 290 under Ilya. An Assassin should never be running around with stats greater than what Herk packs. For reference, Gilgamesh, another ancient human of around that time (and honestly more likely to have existed than Cain) sits at 220 under a competent magus like Tokiomi and in the far more nominally-powerful class of Archer.
Yes, his Phantasms aren't amazing but as it is he's strong enough, fast enough and tough enough to crush many opponents regardless, especially with an A Rank in High-Speed Divine Words and everything he should be able to do with that, making him effectively a powerhouse physical Caster of absurd level.
Last edited by Vagrant; December 2nd, 2012 at 12:15 AM.
This. Cain is what essentially amounts to a Caster Class Servant with Presence Concealment, better physical stats than Herc, and a suped-up version of Knight of Honor that turns everything he touches into a one-shot Gae Buidhe. That is anything but weak. He'd be an absolute monster in whatever Grail War he participates in. This isn't taking into account the Mark of Cain, which guarantees he can take a foe down with him and would make anyone fighting him hesitate if they know about it. This is probably one of the few times where having his identity known would be an advantage to a Servant. Everybody who knows the story of Cain knows about the Mark, but they'd have no way of knowing about his First Murderer NP, so they'd hesitate to go for the kill, wanting some other Servant to take him down, and he'd be free to stalk Masters or just flat-out ambush Servants and overwhelm them with First Murderer and his incredible physical stats.
Well, I guess I mean I feel it doesn't capture the spirit of him enough, or isn't flashy enough.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Can't see Cain losing to anyone apart from Herc( and perhaps Saber with Avalon) that appeared in the 4th or 5th with his abilities. He'd draw with Gilgamesh and maybe one of the more powerful Sabers. He's pretty op.
In all fairness his actual story isn't terribly flashy. He was a farmer, God chose Abel's sacrifice of meat over his vegetables, he got jealous and dashed Abel's brains out with a rock, God sent his @$$ to wandering with the mark to make sure no one else killed him. Nothing about his story would suggest anything about him being strong or even flashy (the guy sacrificed vegetables to God instead of some animal). The only reason he's as physically strong as he is in the profile is because in his story he's one of the first humans (the 2nd generation of humanity in fact), and in the Nasuverse that means something special.
Edit:
Agreed. Gil would kill him and get totalled by the Mark of Cain; even if he made the LCK and Skill check he'd still take double the damage he used to kill Cain and double the damage of being skewered from head to toe by prototype NPs is plenty fatal.
Last edited by G-Man; December 2nd, 2012 at 01:40 AM.
Well, I mean, what if the NP involved being more thematic -- for instance, something that involves betrayal, or something like that, just like Rule Breaker ties into Medea's legend.
But yeah, hard to think of something...
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Ill try and make my comments like asdfgh does
Servant Class: Assassin (Fake)/ Caster (?)
True Name: Cain
Gender: Male
Alignment: Neutral
----Base Parameters----
Strength: B(+)
Endurance: A(+)
Agility: B(+)
Magical Energy: B
Luck: D
Noble Phantasm: B
----Class Abilities----
Presence Concealment: D
Suitable for spying
----Personal Skills----
Natural Body: B
Possession of a perfect body as a living being from birth. The owner of this Skill is treated as if his STR and AGI is always Rank-Up.
Not sure I agree with this ability for him, the ability is supposed to be representative of how 'perfect' his body is, and nothing in his legend really makes this make sense unless it is because he is one of the earliest humans, and even then rank B is likely too high if that is the reason, a D might be appropriate but I am skeptical on this one regardless. Obviously changing the rank on this, or eliminating it altogether would alter his stats accordingly.
First Murderer: A
The ability of one who kills people, the user gains a (+) modifier on STR, END and AGI whenever he is fighting with the intent to kill
I don't know that basing the boosts on "killing intent" so to speak is the best way to do it. Since murder is not the same thing as fighting intending to kill I would make it so that he gets the boosts only when acting to kill "In cold blood" which would mean that once adrenaline and combat get involved he LOSES the bonuses.
Also I think that much more interesting than stat boosts for this would be something to the tune of "As the one who set the precedent for murder and essentially invented the art Cain can utilize the talents and abilities of famous murderers that came after him, though as these skills are not actually his Cain must use them all at rank down" (essentially a kind of "Cain only" Expert of Many Specializations plus Librarian of Stored Knowledge plus Murderer of the Misty Night, I assume serial killing counts as murder, so he gets to access jack the ripper's techniques)
High-Speed Divine Words: A
High-Thaumaturgy-level Magecraft can be cast at the speed of Single-Action spells.
Stuff that isn't here that I think fits
either
Mental Pollution: A
He murdered his brother over his sacrifices not being preferred by YHWH, and then has the gall to try and deceive and omniscient being after the fact. Dude is batshit crazy for sure (he gets this if we are playing his legend straight).
or
Innocent Monster: some rank
Cain is one of the best places to have this ability, not sure on the specifics but the idea of having him actually be a much nicer/better person than his myth says he is would be interesting (he gets this if we are altering the history for the nasuverse).
----Noble Phantasms----
--Abel--
The First Murder
A crystalization of Assassin's most famous legend, the murder of his brother Abel, marking him as the First Murderer.
As Assassin does not have a weapon that he can call his own, this Noble Phantasm allows him to gain proficiency with any weapon that he uses.
However, the true nature of this Noble Phantasm is an ability which he can use with any weapon. That is, the ability to mark an attack as a "killing blow", making it unhealable, even to creatures with the immortal attribute. This power is limited to one-time only for each weapon.
Rank: C
Type: Support/Anti-unit
Range: -
Rather than being a not-Gae buidhe maybe make it do something else? Maybe it takes the form of a charm in the shape of a drop of blood, and when filled with prana it causes everyone in the vicinity to go mad with bloodlust and start murdering each other? If you are really dead-set on the Buidhe route then instead of having Abel make weapons deal unhealable damage, using it simply makes a single target unable to be healed at all (it acts like a single target curse that makes their wounds bleed free)? You could have an additional part that in order to recharge Abel's ability to curse a target Abel must perform a ritual in which he sacrifices both animals and vegetables to God?
--Mark of Cain--
God's Curse
Assassin uses a headband to conceal a mark on his forehead which is a curse given to him by the Hebrew God YHWH
A passive-type Noble Phantasm that is only activated with Cain's death. It automatically multiplies sevenfold the damage given to Cain by his killer and hit him with it. The opponent has to make a Luck Check and/or Magical Resistance Check. Each successful Check decreases 2.5 times the damage, so at best the damage is still multiplied twofold.
Rank: B
Type: Anti-unit
Range: -
This is good as-is
Other
- A calm man who regrets the death of his brother, he will only fight when necessary. Thinks that the Assassin class is not for him.
- His desire for the Grail is not to revive his brother (what's done is done), but to talk with him once more and ask for his forgiveness.
- If the Assassin slot is taken, Cain can be summoned as a Caster, where he will acquire Terrytory Creation A (for his building of cities, like Enoch) and Item Creation D (can make some charms). However, he will lose Presence Concealment and Abel.
- The first idea was to give him Unified Language, but since even Gilgamesh doesn't have it, I decided to give him only HSDW.
- My idea of him is an Assassin who walks around with a lot of knifes and other weapons, using Abel in the middle of a fight, as he discards the ones that becomes useless.
OK, reading the Wiki page about the mark of Cain in more detail, it seems everybody would instantly know who he is because of it. I think that's a good fit. Maybe he can't hide his identity. There's also a big deal made out of the fact that anything he tries to farm won't produce anything, and that he was a fugitive wanderer that was rejected by families.
I remember the novel Grendel I read in school when I was a kid had Grendel basically descended from Cain and having the mark as some sort of curse that pretty much doomed him to be an outcast and monstrosity.
Then there's his whole "Am I my brother's keeper" thing.
Also that when he spilled his brother's blood the ground pretty much dried up and died.
Last edited by mAc Chaos; December 2nd, 2012 at 04:22 AM.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Thank you all for the advices, made some changes (Decreased parameters, decreased Natural Body, nerfed Abel, took out HSDW, added Innocent Monster, changed First Murderer):
Servant Class: Assassin (Fake)/ Caster (?)
True Name: Cain
Gender: Male
Alignment: Neutral
----Base Parameters----
Strenght: B(+)
Endurance: B
Agility: C(+)
Magical Energy: B
Luck: D
Noble Phantasm: B
----Class Abilities----
Presence Concealment: D
Suitable for spying
----Personal Skills----
Natural Body: C
Possession of a perfect body as a living being from birth. The owner of this Skill is treated as if his STR is always Rank-Up.
First Murderer: A
The ability of one who kills people, the user gains a (+) modifier on STR and AGI whenever he tries to kill a helpless victim. Assassin regards any non-servant as a helpless victim.
Innocent Monster: C
The name of a man that had his past and way of being distorted because of the image that was born from his behavior in the previous life. Both abilities and appearance sometimes gets transformed. Incidentally, this equipment (Skill) cannot be removed.
----Noble Phantasms----
--Abel--
The First Murder
A crystalization of Assassin's most famous legend, the murder of his brother Abel, marking him as the First Murderer.
As Assassin does not have a weapon that he can call his own, this Noble Phantasm allows him to gain proficiency with any weapon that he uses.
However, the true nature of this Noble Phantasm is an ability which he can use with any weapon. That is, the ability to mark an attack as a "killing blow", making it unhealable, even to creatures with the immortal attribute. The limits of this power is that it's one-time only for each weapon and it must be recharged with a ritual that takes at least one hour.
Rank: C
Type: Support/Anti-unit
Range: -
--Mark of Cain--
God's Curse
Assassin uses a headband to conceal a mark on his forehead which is a curse given to him by the Hebrew God YHWH. Also, anyone who sees the mark automatically guesses his identity.
A passive-type Noble Phantasm that is only activated with Cain's death. It automatically multiplies sevenfold the damage given to Cain by his killer and hit him with it. The opponent has to make a Luck Check and/or Magical Resistance Check. Each successful Check decreases 2.5 times the damage, so at best the damage is still multiplied twofold.
Rank: B
Type: Anti-unit
Range: -
Other
- A calm man who regrets the death of his brother, he will only fight when necessary. Thinks that the Assassin class is not for him. However, because of Innocent Monster, if he sees someone getting killed he can enter in an assassin mode where his morals and ethics are reversed (also, he can only use First Murderer in that mode).
- His desire for the Grail is not to revive his brother (what's done is done), but to talk with him once more and ask for his forgiveness.
- If the Assassin slot is taken, Cain can be summoned as a Caster, where he will acquire Terrytory Creation A (for his building of cities, like Enoch), Item Creation D (can make some charms) and HSDW A. However, he will lose Presence Concealment, Abel and First Murder.
- The first idea was to give him Unified Language, but since even Gilgamesh doesn't have it, I decided to give him only HSDW.
- My idea of him is an Assassin who walks around with a lot of knifes and other weapons, using Abel in the middle of a fight, as he discards the ones that becomes useless.
- Felt that giving him Jack's skills would make him really OP with Abel. Same with making the opponent be unhealable, since that would pratically make it a one-hit kill.
- Yes, Natural Body was given to him 'cause he's basically the third human to ever exist.
Last edited by ForeverHero; December 2nd, 2012 at 10:05 AM.
I like the change to helpless victims for first murder, it still makes him way better at killing non-servants (and occasionally maybe a servant), but never appllies in combat.
Also the limitation on first murder makes him need to act much more like an assassin than he did before (as before he could basically be Lancelot, except with the added bonus of making all his weapons ALSO have gae buidhe's property attached. Now he gets to make one unhealable strike, likely from the shadows, and if he manages to get into a fight he can likely hold his own long enough to find a way to retreat.)
On a related note, while anyone can recognize the "mark" so long as he covers it up nobody would recognize him right?
I would think so... That is, if a servant that recognizes him don't come out in the same war (lolAdam)...
And of course, anyone who sees his mark will immediately know who he is.
is Adam (as in from the book of Genesis) Type-Earth? would being type earth disqualify him from being a servant (not that he would be all that powerful unless he had original one as a personal skill)?
Adam is hummen, Gaia haet hummens. Adam no Type.
<NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?
[11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
[12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
[12:40] Neir: lucina is pretty much flawless
Is vergil or dante created already in this thread?
Generally this thread is heavily weighted towards historical/mythological Servants, but you are welcome to stat them. This thread contains more fictional Servants.
Also, I have a question. Can a heroic spirit slot into the Saber class despite having a non-sword main NP? From what i can gather, Sabers are the extreme close-combatant (meaning they have little to do with ranged combat and EKSEE...KYARIBAAAAA being the exception that proves the norm) with excellent defensive measures (Magic Resistance almost always A, with C considered dismal; and that's not counting personal Skills). The character i'm going to stat fits all that mold, except he has no sword to speak of and i feel that putting him into Berserker is a bit of a letdown though he will potentially give Herc a run for his money as a fellow Berz.
Last edited by Gunbazca; December 5th, 2012 at 08:02 AM.
"MONGLERS!" - Gilgamesh, last words
Okay, cool. I might also do historical servants too in the future.
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