Create-a-Servant

[ScarletWeather]

The Ionian Guard is like... 10 times larger, at the least?

The size isn't the issue- it's the manifestation.

Ionion Hetairoi is a composite Reality Marble formed from the shared dreams of Iskander and his army working as one to impose the reality held within their hearts upon the world. They wouldn't be able to be summoned at all if there weren't so many of them, because it's the number of hearts working in unison which enables Iskander to create such a world without being a magus himself. He can't just summon one soldier, he summons Ionion Hetairoi.

That's what I'm talking about here- clarification on the method of the summon and the actual capabilities of the troops, specifically, and their status as Heroic Spirits or not might be nice to have.

[Five_X]

Yeah, that's the thing - Iskandar's army is heroic spirits and dudes. Caesar's army is just awesome because she's awesome. Otherwise they're just troops. You see? There are no personalities to worry about, and instead of their power being their own, their power is Caesar's. In a manner of speaking it's superior to Ionian Hetairoi due to that, but Ionian Hetairoi has RM shitsngiggles.

Also keep in mind the Military Tactics sub-skills.

Plus, lolCultofPersonality

^^ You didn't get far 'cause you suck. :|

[I3uster]

I swear, I'll catch up.
But if I read anything else but powerlevel arguments, fanfic drama and canon debates while still not having finished Regalia I feel guilty. Like eating Steak in front of a homeless orphan.

[SeiKeo]

Or he didn't get that far because MPII is 'lol Five's weirdshit wanking over generals' :3

[Five_X]

Eh, not wanking over generals. An army hasn't appeared since the earlier chapters. Just like Nasu has his beamuswords, MPII has armies. Roll with it. IH is only special because it's an HS army and has a Reality Marble, not because it's an army.

[ScarletWeather]

Or he didn't get that far because MPII is 'lol Five's weirdshit wanking over generals' :3

And modern heroic spirits who have no business having A-Rank Phantasms, I will eat Overture alive.

Um... if the army's power is Caesar's power, shouldn't there be at least a cost for maintaining the whole thing? Rank-downs? Dilution of spiritual body to maintain a host that large?

...anything?

I repeat, the concept works, it's way better for Caesar than Crocea Mors (which I think you've said yourself is really obscure), and I like Caesarko overall because I have read MPII. But the army summon being poof literal army because awesome just does not sit well with me.

Further note, the army has to be something if they can be summoned. They aren't just regular human beings, they're Caesar's troops. You could make the argument that for this reason alone, all of them are minor heroic spirits on-par with Ionion Hetairoi. :/

[Five_X]

No cost other than prana. The Military Tactics subskill "Logistics" takes care of that for the most part.

Crocea Mors is cool, and it makes Caesar a Saber. Otherwise, she wouldn't really have a class.

No, you don't get it on the troops aspect. They are regular troops, that's the point. However, the very fact that they are led by Caesar elevates them beyond that. The army itself is a branch of Caesar, since they're loyal to her and nothing else. With IH, the soldiers are loyal to their king but bound by their shared dream. Caesar's legions are dear to her heart and absolutely devoted to her and no one else. It is definitely enough to bother Heroic Spirits, especially those devoted to single combat, since Caesar's troops are tough. But, it's not the troops themselves that are strong. Caesar makes them strong by the devotion of her troops and her leadership and own self-pride.

Also, do note that it's enough of a damper on her prana that she can only use Crocea Mors as an Anti-Unit NP when the army is manifested.

But most of all: SW, you're putting function over fiction. That's a very, very bad thing to do, and leads to boring Servants because while they are perfectly explained, there's little room for flexibility and they're just blank on paper. No depth other than what you state that they have, rather than being prone to narrative manipulation and different scenarios.

[ScarletWeather]

But most of all: SW, you're putting function over fiction. That's a very, very bad thing to do, and leads to boring Servants because while they are perfectly explained, there's little room for flexibility and they're just blank on paper. No depth other than what you state that they have, rather than being prone to narrative manipulation and different scenarios.

I love your assumption that I'm putting "function over fiction" by specifically objecting to the specific form of a Phantasm on your specific Servant for personal reasons, and the further one that this somehow negates anything I just said. If you're going to use that as an excuse to write your Servants however you want, by all means do so, but if that's the case then I reserve the right to have Sun Wukong the Monkey King turn into Kamen Rider Fourze and fly into space to fight the Moon because he was summoned as Archer.

You need a certain degree of function in order to write rewarding fiction. If you can bend the rules whenever you want for reasons as nebulous as "the character is this awesome", I'd rather you try a little harder than that because you're certainly capable of it.

Crocea Mors is cool, and it makes Caesar a Saber. Otherwise, she wouldn't really have a class.

It's not so much that it isn't cool as it is "It's the other Saber's phantasm". Gawain's wasn't my favorite either. Caesar could make it into the Saber class on imperial privilege more easily than I can see him making it in because of any particular weapon, but my major objection is just... the devotion and bonds of loyalty thing is cool and all but that's stealing what made Ionion Hetairoi an awesome moment without anything which justified it as Ionion Hetairoi. The justification for why Iskander's troops were heroic spirits followed the same principle- they didn't do anything special beyond following Iskander, and it's Iskander's greatness which made them great, because they shared his dreams. :/

[celsius]

How do you know Gentaro isn't actually the reincarnation of Sun Wukong?

[Five_X]

It has function, which can be shown in the fiction. That's what it is. Servants can't really be shown in full depth unless you put them in a piece of prose, honestly, and really many things can be justified by the narrative and setting. It has fine function, and it's not because "this character is awesome" really, it's because the NP is fairly implicit. It's been noted that the soldiers are not heroic spirits, and-

Ah, screw it. I'll go with a simpler explanation:

Ionian Hetaroi, the soldiers within, share Alexander's dream and they follow that just about as much as they follow their kind. They are his equals and his friends, though not to imply that Caesar views herself as any better than her own troops in context.

The legions, however, are not individuals, so much. Rather, they are to Caesar as Excalibur is to King Arthur: a sword, a dedicated and beloved weapon.

[ScarletWeather]

How do you know Gentaro isn't actually the reincarnation of Sun Wukong?

Maybe he is~

Astro Switches- The 72 Celestial Forms- Support/Anti-Unit/Anti-Army- E-A+++- Sun Wukong's legendary ability to transform his body, given modern form. Each "switch" represents a single form or ability which Wukong may take, crystallized into a simple trigger, which may be invoked when pressing it. Use of the switches in tandem is also possible. If charged with prana, Wukong may use a switch to execute a "Limit Break", which is particularly effective against foes with ranks in Divinity, Phantasmal Beasts, or monstrous spirits.

Ionian Hetaroi, the soldiers within, share Alexander's dream and they follow that just about as much as they follow their kind. They are his equals and his friends, though not to imply that Caesar views herself as any better than her own troops in context.

The legions, however, are not individuals, so much. Rather, they are to Caesar as Excalibur is to King Arthur: a sword, a dedicated and beloved weapon.

You lost me the moment you assumed you could turn individuals into the equivalent of a sword while still maintaining their identity as legions. You can't just go "Caesar doesn't think of them as equals therefore they're a weapon" unless they're literally being manifested through a weapon or a concept, not directly as Caesar's Legions. :/

Also I've read MPII. What the heck do you think I've been using for context? The only reason I brought this up here and not there is it seemed like a better place to spark a discussion.

[celsius]

Maybe he is~

Astro Switches- The 72 Celestial Forms- Support/Anti-Unit/Anti-Army- E-A+++- Sun Wukong's legendary ability to transform his body, given modern form. Each "switch" represents a single form or ability which Wukong may take, crystallized into a simple trigger, which may be invoked when pressing it. Use of the switches in tandem is also possible. If charged with prana, Wukong may use a switch to execute a "Limit Break", which is particularly effective against foes with ranks in Divinity, Phantasmal Beasts, or monstrous spirits.

Be my bride.

[Five_X]

You lost me the moment you assumed you could turn individuals into the equivalent of a sword while still maintaining their identity as legions. You can't just go "Caesar doesn't think of them as equals therefore they're a weapon" unless they're literally being manifested through a weapon or a concept, not directly as Caesar's Legions. :/

Also I've read MPII. What the heck do you think I've been using for context? The only reason I brought this up here and not there is it seemed like a better place to spark a discussion.

They're not individuals, though. They are individuals in that they are multiple separate physical beings, but in effect they are Caesar's swords to wield, a weapon rather than allies.

You just don't seem to get it, I'm afraid, and you're too focused on using IH as a comparison. It works, but shouldn't be used so extensively. :|

[ScarletWeather]

Be my bride.

Absolutely. A trap is okay with you too, right?

They're not individuals, though. They are individuals in that they are multiple separate physical beings, but in effect they are Caesar's swords to wield, a weapon rather than allies.

You just don't seem to get it, I'm afraid, and you're too focused on using IH as a comparison. It works, but shouldn't be used so extensively. :|

Using the only canonical Phantasm which has an army-summoning capability as a point of reference to decide how similar abilities or concepts could be played out in the same universe?

MADNESS.

Rider mount summons would be an easier point of comparison, but with those I think my issue is that the ones we've seen in canon are a vehicle (an armada of them actually), a phantasmal beast who was born from the blood of Medusa to begin with, and Gordius Wheel which... was weird to say the least, but also at least as the link of "Iskander is descended from Zeus, offered to Zeus, chariot get". They're also currently-living in the case of the latter two, they're phantasmal beasts. :/

It's summoning an autonomous legion of individuals who can be summoned for the same justification as Ionion Hetairoi except for reasons of Caesarko is just AWESOME, it works differently because you say so and it played out the way you wanted it to in your fanfic. Fine and dandy but not in any way, shape, or form elevating it above a point where I can criticize it because I don't think it should play out that way and I find it to be a cool idea but a very cheap workaround for the rules. :/

[Five_X]

Well then, this is all opinion and there is literally no point to arguing.

Napoleon time, anyone? :3

[ScarletWeather]

Well then, this is all opinion and there is literally no point to arguing.

Napoleon time, anyone? :3

-cracks knuckles-

I am the words of this argument
My body is logic
My blood is rage
Have withstood flames to present many points
Unknown to Beast's Lair
Nor to Fanfiction.Net
Yet this debate will never go anywhere

I have no regrets. This is my only path.

UNLIMITED DEBATE WOOOORKS.

-Coughs-

I am an awful human being and I apologize for being such.

And HA, YOU FELL FOR IT. My obvious objections to your phantasms will surely have attracted attention to myself which in turn I can use to get people to comment on MY SERVANT. AHAHAHAHA-

(...Yeah that wasn't actually my motivation, please don't hurt me. ;; )

Class: Caster

Appearance- A stern-looking man somewhere between his late twenties and early thirties, Caster is distinguished by his unusually long, think black hair and beard and his height- namely, his lack thereof, as he stands only at five feet, five inches tall*. Atop his head he wears a golden circlet, and his body is clothed in gorgeous, ornate red-and-purple robes. Caster will immediate change this upon arrival, however, immediately acquiring whatever clothing is perceived as professional or suitable for one in a seat of power for the current area and culture he has been summoned to.

Parameters-

Strength- E
Agility- D
Magic- A
Endurance- C
Luck- B

Class Skills-

Territory Creation- A+- The ability to construct one's own space. At this Rank, creation of a "Temple", superior to a "Workshop", is possible.

Item Creation- EX- Caster is highly skilled in the creation of very specific forms of magical item, such as vessels which elemental spirits may be sealed in or objects which could be used in rituals for summoning certain types of elemental spirits or phantasmal beasts, but cannot create even the simplest of potions or simple tools for enhancing magical power.

Personal Skills-

Charisma- A++- The Capacity to compel others to follow oneself. At this Rank, Caster's charisma has gone beyond what is normal for the king of a nation and has increased to the point where even his enemies may feel compelled to hear him out or treat him with respect and deference.

Animal Dialogue- A+++- The ability to communicate with animals who lack normal human languages. Caster was legendary for having deciphered the language of all birds and beasts. At this Rank, any animal with the capacity to understand instructions will respect Caster as they would a member of their own species, and his Charisma skill will have the same effect on them it would have on a human being. In addition, Caster will understand the intents and feelings of such creatures with absolute clarity.

Golden Rule- A- The ability to attract money. At this Rank, financial problems are unknown to the Servant.

Noble Phantasms-

Divine Wisdom- The Greatest of All Things- Support- A - Caster's first action after being asked by YHWH what he desired was to request "wisdom", and the book of Proverbs is attributed to him. The Divine Wisdom manifests these legends as a passive Noble Phantasm which is always active and requires minimal prana expenditure. When confronted with any dilemma which would require him to make a decision, Caster will immediately be able to perceive the best possible choice or set of choices available to him. This Phantasm is not a form of precognition, but rather the equivalent of being given at all times the absolute knowledge of a decision that, were the situation repeated, would bring favorable results the greatest number of times. Its sheer range, however, extends to any decision Caster is confronted with, including giving him the most favorable words he might say to an enemy to make them cease their attack temporarily, or mapping out complex battle strategies the moment combat becomes necessary (as such, Caster possesses the equivalent of A-Rank Military Tactics).

The Temple of YHWH- God among Gods and King of Kings- Anti-Fortress- A+- Caster's only 'true' power, the ability to manifest the temple which was built during his reign as part of a reality marble. The Temple will appear exactly as it did during Caster's lifetime, and a white-hot pillar of flame will hover above it. This blaze is claimed by Caster to be the radiance of God but is in reality the manifestation of not only Caster's faith in YHWH but the faith of the people of Israel both following their flight from Egypt and the establishment of the Kingdom, and into the modern day for all those who pray for the restoration of the Temple. Enemies of Caster who are trapped within the Marble are immediately targeted by the pillar of flame, which will completely consume them should it strike. Caster himself will enter the Temple's outer court and lock the main gate behind him. The Reality Marble may be dispelled either by the destruction of a significant portion of the Temple, or significantly injuring Caster himself. Should the Temple be destroyed, Caster will be unable to use the Marble again during the current Grail War. Calling forth The Temple is time-consuming, and while its potential range is tremendous and precise since only Caster's enemies are subject to judgment, the sheer amount of time Caster must spend focusing and chanting the required incantation make it an inefficient Phantasm at best, used only under great duress as a method of achieving a certain victory.

Legend-

Solomon. The wisest of men. In life, he was the successor of David of the House of Jesse, Israel's first truly just king who walked in the ways of the Lord. Solomon had only one ambition he had inherited from his father- the desire to build a temple to house the God who was responsible for his success. It was a simple ambition unrelated to conquest or to anything but a simple desire to worship his god. This pure faith resonated with the World, and Solomon bargained with it, joining the Throne of Heroes in exchange for the wisdom required to acquire the wealth and influence necessary to complete the Temple. This divine wisdom became what he relied on for every decision, eventually becoming known throughout the world as a settler of disputes and a crafty merchant. As tales spread, his fame grew greater, and Solomon happily began to accept foreign envoys, learning the secrets of how to tame Elemental Spirits from some of his various wives.

But this was contrary to the man he had wished to be.

Solomon had wanted to be faithful to God alone, to create a Temple fit for him which would last forever, and a kingdom which would be eternal.

His Wisdom guided him away from this. With the Temple complete, it indicated the wisest decision would be to placate foreign leaders, to engage his enemies with diplomacy, and to embrace the forms of magecraft he encountered rather than stamping them out as heretical as his father did.

It indicated that participating in the worship of other gods would serve him better as a political tool than their rejection.

Slowly, Solomon came to the end of his life, and at his last realized that despite the fact that he had initially done all things for his God, he had in the end forsaken him for the sake of wisdom.

He died heartbroken.

Wish- Solomon's sole desire is to simplify his original bargain with the world, giving it his services as a Heroic Spirit in exchange for wisdom only long enough to construct the Temple.

[Sunny]

I think Caesar's design is pretty neat, also, from seeing her artwork on various peoples' avatars recently. She's pretty and I like the idea that Rome was founded on undocumented genderswap just about all the way through. The only things that bother me a bit are minor: one is that raw strength of A seems a little excessive when she has both a personal skill and a NP that strengthens her up more, so B feels like it would have been more of a 'default' state if that makes sense. The other thing is just that this confused me a tiny bit...

How come Cult of Personality calls her a young Heroic Spirit when Caesar is from 100 BC and pre-dates a lot of other Servants including Arturia herself? I don't mind the skill, but I was wondering if I missed something when I read that line because that's not exactly a young duckling by Heroic Spirit standards. ^^; Though maybe that's explained in the fanfic. I want to read that but haven't had the time to catch up yet. The Servant choice and overall idea is very neat for a Saber though.

Solomon's NP reminds me of David's ark box in Apocrypha, but less silly and useless sounding than his was.

[Five_X]

Well, relatively young. :P

Not like with Napoleon's Cult of Personality.

[ScarletWeather]

Solomon's NP reminds me of David's ark box in Apocrypha, but less silly and useless sounding than his was.

Well, there's one major difference between the two, unfortunately for Solomon.

Solomon's is potentially anti-fortress in terms of sheer power and range, but it's a reality marble that's prohibitively hard to summon because it requires knowing the exact location of your target, reconstructing the Temple in his memory exactly as it appeared in his life, and saying a ten-line incantation I'd have included if I'd figured it out yet. He also has no other battle skills or Phantasms to speak of- the elemental spirits thing is a diversion at best against most Heroic Spirits. So basically, the Temple is his nuclear option when all diplomacy breaks down and he has no choice but to bet on it.

David has Havesh Avanim which canonically knocks you out, period, on the fifth stone. As long as the enemy can be knocked unconscious by Avanim, he'll probably be able to not only drag them to the altar and burn them, but he'll get a Phantasm out of the bargain.

Kinda fitting split though given David was the king who God told not to build the Temple because lol you killed too many people because I asked you to.

[Zer0light]

Name: Negi Springfield

Class: Caster (can also be summoned as berserker, but with redused magic and luck stats increased strenght and none of the listed skills)

Stats:

Strength: A
Endurance: B
Agility: A+ (A+++ when in lightning form)
Magic: A+ (A when berserk)
Luck: C (E when berserk)

Noble Phantasm:

Magia Erebea
"Dark Magic". a spell rather than a physical item, it allows caster to absorb his own attack spells and fuse them to his soul, becoming the element. this version of caster has not mastered Magia Erebea and so can only use it for 15 min to 1 hour, depending on how much prana his master can supply him with. going over the limit will either cause him to go berserk, causing him to recklessly attack all those in the vicinity including his master and down grading luck by 2, magic by 1 and negating some skills (a 70% chance) or temporarily petrifying himself, leaving him open for attack (a 30% chance). the form he uses the most is his lighting form, which gives him a boost in speed ( 1 up in agility). most of his attack magic requires him to be in this form to use them. extended periods in berserk stat can lead to petrification (a 3% chance)

Rank: A+
Type: Anti-Unit
Maximum Targets: 1

Ensis Exsequens:
"Sword of the Executioner". Meaning "Executioner's Sword" in Latin, the Ensis Exsequens spell is one which instantly converts matter from a solid or liquid into a gas which then is conveyed via a violent phase transition to attack an opponent. On some matter, the spell has no effect, but an object or individual thusly phase-shifted instantly into a gas would be just as instantly vaporized. Depending upon the spell's area of effect, then, the outcome might be very destructive, indeed, with anything in its effective range essentially vaporized and killed. Although it may be normal upon hearing the term "vaporized" for one to expect a sudden increase in temperature, matter that is transported via phase transition actually absorbs an incredible amount of heat energy, so much so that surrounding temperatures suddenly drop. (At 1AT, a steamlike vapor with a temperature of -25°C develops). This powerful spell has an additional effect―even if the brunt of the spell is avoided, the target still has the extremely low temperature left in its wake to deal with. Most magic that utilizes cold does so by lowering the temperature of an object, this creates a corresponding condensation effect. Ensis Exsequens, on the other hand, causes extreme cold by initiating phase transition by means of the sudden transformation of solids into gases

Rank: C+
Type: Anti-Unit
Maximum Targets: 1

Jovis Tempestas Fulguriens: "Come wind, thunder spirits. Blow violently with thunder, Storm of the South Seas". Magic that conjures a strong whirlwind and lightning that attacks the enemy. Jovis is another name for the king of Roman gods, Jupiter, who is thought to use lightning as a weapon. In short, Jovis tempestas means "Jupiter's storm that unleashes lightning".

Rank: C
Type: Anti-Army
Maximum Targets:50

Khilipl Astraphe(Κιλιπλ Αστραπη): Thousand Thunderbolts. High ancient anti-army directed wide-range annihilation spell that covers the target area with lightning. It is 10 times more powerful than Jovis Tempestas Fulguriens, capable of melting several meters of rock, and has a area of effect of several hundred meters.

Rank: A
Type: Anti-Army
Maximum Targets: 200 (a guess, im not really sure)

Dios Logche 'Titano-ktonon' (Διος Λογχη 'Τιτανο-κτονον'): Spear of the Lightning God, 'Titan Slayer'. An original spell created by Caster , achieved via Magia Erebea (spell delay); by merging Khilipl Astrape into 'Jaculatio Fulgoris’ spear form, it concentrates Khilipl Astrape’s intense destructive power into a focused “spike”.

Rank: A
Type: Anti-Unit
Maximum Targets: 1

Skills:

Charisma: A (canceled when berserk)

Magic resistance: B (canceled when berserk) caster was born with high magic resistance due to his ancient bloodline.

Chinese Martial Arts: A+ (canceled when berserk) caster has studied and almost mastered Chinese martial arts.

High-Speed Divine Words: B (due to increased thought speed while in lighting form, caster can cast spells faster. canceled when berserk)

Dark magic: due to Magia Erebea's origin's being rooted in darkness, caster is weak against holy magic and weapons, especially while berserk or petrified.

Eye for Art: D (canceled when berserk) due to being a collector or antiques and weapons and a genius at spell R&D, caster has a chance to identify the enemies noble phantasm whether it's a weapon or a spell.





so, what do you think? i severely nerfed him since current negi overcame the dark magic encroachment issue, has higher magic resistance due to possibly being a vampire, has regen and has no access to his pactio card.

if there's something i missed or got wrong, tell me please.i got most
of my info here. http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispace...gi+Springfield