Grand Unified Theory: CHALDEA

[sentence]

Hakuno was an NPC derived from a living human, though, and the two examples you mentioned worked mainly by the system being cheated in one form or another. In all of those cases there's still a "true" Hakuno whose body is still in suspended animation and which Rin/Rani is implied to seek a cure for in EXTRA's ending. Maybe that will change in EXTRA Record but that'll have to get released for us to say for sure.

Real Hakuno is independent from the moon cell one.
The NPC one died in Extra, left with a Servant in CCC and become king of the moon in Extella.

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The Alien God has pretty much shown the ability to do as much- they had to prove that it was possible for the Crypters to survive the incineration of Humanity, but once it was proven possible in the simulation, they could make it reality.

Not at all, Alien God just wanted energy to resurrect them, it was mentioned to Kirsch that it requires really huge amount of energy.

[InsertNameHere]

Real Hakuno is independent from the moon cell one.
The NPC one died in Extra, left with a Servant in CCC and become king of the moon in Extella.

You're splitting hairs here- the NPC one couldn't have existed if the "real one" was never there.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

You're splitting hairs here- the NPC one couldn't have existed if the "real one" was never there.

I think what sentence means here is that they can exist separately. NPC Hakuno came to be thanks to Earth Hakuno, sure, but afterward they continue on without affecting each other's life.

[tipoima]

I wouldn't put too much significance on U-Olga's comment about Alter Egos.
They only became summonable after Melt/Lip got recorded in the Throne post-Seraph (I believe Mooncell doesn't operate on the normal summoning laws, so Sakura Five being AEs shouldn't be a problem even in PHH).
While the class is not native to PHH, the Throne could reverse-engineer it.
Hell, you can even look at it in the meta way. With AEs having class advantage over Foreigners (who show up in the very next singularity), Counter Force certainly would like having something over them.

[sentence]

I think what sentence means here is that they can exist separately. NPC Hakuno came to be thanks to Earth Hakuno, sure, but afterward they continue on without affecting each other's life.

Yes. If NPC is erased, the NPC one is erased, he will not continue to exist on Earth, he will disappear.
And, if the Earth one died, it will not affect NPC one (who already was created).

You play as NPC Hakuno. And the NPC Hakuno's fate is quite good in both CCC and Extelle despite being a NPC.

[InsertNameHere]

I wouldn't put too much significance on U-Olga's comment about Alter Egos.
They only became summonable after Melt/Lip got recorded in the Throne post-Seraph (I believe Mooncell doesn't operate on the normal summoning laws, so Sakura Five being AEs shouldn't be a problem even in PHH).
While the class is not native to PHH, the Throne could reverse-engineer it.
Hell, you can even look at it in the meta way. With AEs having class advantage over Foreigners (who show up in the very next singularity), Counter Force certainly would like having something over them.

Or rather, BB hacked the Throne to allow them to be summoned (and herself, at that matter).

[tipoima]

Or rather, BB hacked the Throne to allow them to be summoned (and herself, at that matter).

Well, same principle. Makes it more justified, even.

[AZURE]

I commented on this in other places but I think I should talk about this here. I guess reading this it reminds me of Umineko a lot, FGO's world is just a catbox and Olga is the witch that wrote that catbox. Part 2 is really her writing her heart out about her fate, so I can guess her fate. Olga will be saved and freed but Guda will choose to stay inside Chaldeas as the observer in the catbox, allowing this world of fiction to exist. The fact that Holmes allowed himself to fall is the proof of this to me. As a detective he would have opened the box and gutted the cat, but instead he chose to love and leave the box closed to believe in magic. Guda is the item that will validate this simulation and allow it join reality as a valid timeline. Thus by the players interacting wtih this fiction, they gave it value and validity allowing it join the proper timeline.

This is why part 3 will have a new protagonist, which will be Olga- who will get to experience a future. Also I have to say that interpreting Moonlight Lostroom as a code for the Alien God's plans really opens this up.

[sentence]

This is why part 3 will have a new protagonist

Something which is extremely unlikely though.
They aren't going to re-record voice lines for new Master.

[InsertNameHere]

Something which is extremely unlikely though.
They aren't going to re-record voice lines for new Master.

Yeah. I'm sure that it's likely Olga will end up being a deuteragonist regardless of how things end up being resolved.

[rocohanda]

So, out of curiosity, what would happen had the assault on Chaldea (and by extension CHALDEAS) been repelled for whatever accidental reason (maybe a particularly attached Medea deciding to stay behind to veil for Guda's safety, Da Vinci deciding to prep some safety familiars across the facility, etc.). Anastasia doesn't reach CHALDEAS and thus it doesn't get frozen. Does it throw a wrench into the whole Alien God's plan or what?

I don't think Anastasia managed to do anything to CHALDEAS at all. In LB7, Tezca makes it clear that Daybit wants to awaken ORT so it eats CHALDEAS, which really doesn't sound like it got frozen and rendered non-functional. Sion also wonders why U-Olga Marie wants to fuse with ORT at all when she has been the strongest thing on Earth since Olympus and at least 20 times stronger than Chaldea, and her explicit words are "why is she so worried?" In the Traum prologue, they mention that U-Olga Marie didn't follow them to Antarctica for some reason. To me, it seems like the Alien God is scared of CHALDEAS, just like ORT and Daybit.

[sentence]

Why didn't Daybit just bomb it while he was Chaldea's resident and had full access to it?

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By the way.
In the ORT sequence (Chapter 10) Daybit says he will do his job as Crypter and destroy the Earth before everything become hollow.

According to his confession to Kadoc the Crypter's job was to detonate with a Singularity, destroying it so the Singularity would not affect real world.
This also strongly implies FGO's Earth is something that shouldn't exist.

[Nanaya]

mfw FGO was a mistake becomes a plot point.

[rocohanda]

Why didn't Daybit just bomb it while he was Chaldea's resident and had full access to it?

I actually think that can't be done. It was probably impossible for anyone other than Marisbury to shut-down CHALDEAS. Olga Marie is very soft, but Daybit never tried threatening her. Marisbury thought that his death was enough to make sure CHALDEAS would remain active.

[TomPen94]

mfw FGO was a mistake becomes a plot point.

Ahahah

Given the scope of FGO's story, Part 2 in particular, I can't say I'm surprised a "This timeline is doomed to fail" is a theme for it.
We have a bunch of examples in Nasu's works that he likes to create these impossible win scenarios and then have the characters try anyway, because that act in itself has its own worth. This is just that, but on a larger scale.

Simulation or no, I do think the bleaching was an ultimately unavoidable outcome for FGO's timeline, and that is gonna be brought up more explicitly at some point to the player's face. But by the same token, I'm fairly certain in the end, the timeline will get to live on. Likely through someone sacrificing themselves to find the perfect solution for everyone else involved.

And I'm not just saying that because Part 3 is defo gonna happen, I'm saying that because it's a pretty usual outcome for Nasu. And I'm kinda here for it.

[sentence]

I actually think that can't be done. It was probably impossible for anyone other than Marisbury to shut-down CHALDEAS. Olga Marie is very soft, but Daybit never tried threatening her. Marisbury thought that his death was enough to make sure CHALDEAS would remain active.

It was mentioned Marisbury needed an amount of energy enough for a small sized country to run CHALDEAS. That's why he went into Holy Grail War: to gather money for it.
Can't Daybit just destroy the energy source so CHALDEAS just shut downs?

[OnesFleetingGlory]

It was mentioned Marisbury needed an amount of energy enough for a small sized country to run CHALDEAS. That's why he went into Holy Grail War: to gather money for it.
Can't Daybit just destroy the energy source so CHALDEAS just shut downs?

It only needs powering for initial six months. Afterward, it can sustain itself.

Marisbury: To power Chaldeas, I would need to take over power plants that could generate enough electricity for an entire country. For no less than six months, even.

[sentence]

So the single possible way to destroy CHALDEAS is to feed it to ORT?
What a weird thing. Even Greater Grail was easier to destroy.

[Petrikow]

So the single possible way to destroy CHALDEAS is to feed it to ORT?
What a weird thing. Even Greater Grail was easier to destroy.

It's an extra-dimensional construct.

[Red Dingo]

And then you started talking about how, to have a good story, we'd have to have a method to exit the simulation and defeat our creator, which a bunch of people argued about. And then you started talking about grasshoppers.

I provided my evidence as to why I believe the FGO world is a simulation, and your argument was basically that it would make a bad story because of the morals it would impart. But we've thoroughly broken down why that doesn't matter- whether you believe it makes a good story or not, it's 100% consistent with Nasu's previous works.

Maybe reread this now that you have a better understanding of Nasu's themes in his previous works.

Wow, I just had a flashback.

I don't think it's hard to destroy CHALDEAS but Daybit determined that it has to be destroyed in that specific manner to achieve his endgame.