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Thread: Create-a-Servant

  1. #2601
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    So, wait, if the attack being "A Rank" is all that matters to God Hand, wouldn't that mean a character summoned from a different series could punch through God Hand as long as their attacks are "A Rank" by whatever classification system is used in their world, even if its actual power output is less than the "A Rank" of the Nasuverse's classification system? That feels... wrong somehow. Or am I just horribly misunderstanding what Mcjon and food are saying?
    Now you're beginning to understand why God Hand causes so many arguments in the BVT.

  2. #2602
    アルテミット・ソット Ultimate Thot Five_X's Avatar
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    As Rin - I think - said, even if an attack can destroy the world, if it is not A-rank or higher, Hercules is fine.
    <NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?

    [11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
    [12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
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  3. #2603
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    You could pierce it with something that is both A rank and relatively weak, but all that gets you is an attack that bounces harmlessly off of Hercules' normal body resistance rather than being nullified before ever reaching him.

  4. #2604
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    So, wait, if the attack being "A Rank" is all that matters to God Hand, wouldn't that mean a character summoned from a different series could punch through God Hand as long as their attacks are "A Rank" by whatever classification system is used in their world, even if its actual power output is less than the "A Rank" of the Nasuverse's classification system? That feels... wrong somehow. Or am I just horribly misunderstanding what Mcjon and food are saying?
    No, it has to be Nasu's patented pseudo-math power level system.

    You need to purchase an other-verse-to-Nasuverse power level converter.

  5. #2605
    Quote Originally Posted by food View Post
    No, it has to be Nasu's patented pseudo-math power level system.

    You need to purchase an other-verse-to-Nasuverse power level converter.
    How much do those cost nowadays?

  6. #2606
    Into that mountain we go! Gaterjhonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    How much do those cost nowadays?
    Last I checked, it sold for over a thousand dorus
    Not so Mega Sig, now properly spoilered
    Spoiler:
    [20:39] <Fishie> I'MA GO PUT HER UNDEREWAR ON MY HEAD LIKE A SALARY PERSON
    the whole story here

    A travel Advisory:
    Spoiler:



    Come visit the 7th Dimension--Where nightmares dreams are made into realities


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    [11:59] <TheoReforged> YOU'RE .... ROADBUSTER!
    [12:00] <@Leo> i'm sorry but that's retarded
    [12:00] <Irondefiler> *cricket sounds*



    Beast's Lair's own Dwarf Fortress succession game is now recruiting mighty able dwarves, sign up if you have what it takes!

  7. #2607
    Time to burn some dread Daneel Rush's Avatar
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    Okay, I hope this turned out interesting.

    *******

    SHOUTOKU TAISHI
    Servant: Saber

    Gender: Either (See Keywords section)

    Shoutoku-male_shirugeru_5931a352f845635a87f3abe8f64c757e.jpgShoutoku-female_kabayaki-unagi_0da4fc3847dbc82d36dc663561645a92.jpg

    Alignment:
    Lawful Neutral


    Strength C
    Endurance B
    Agility B
    Magic C
    Luck B
    Noble Phantasm A++


    Class Skills:
    * Magic Resistance: Grants protection against magical effects.
    B – Cancels spells with a chant below three verses. Even if targeted by High-Thaumaturgy and Greater Rituals, it is difficult for him to be affected.
    * Riding: Expertise to ride animals and vehicles.
    C – The basic skill granted by the Saber class. Allows for above-average handling of natural mounts and ordinary vehicles, but performance is merely average when dealing with complex modern military vessels.

    Personal Skills:
    * Clairaudience: Superior auditory perception. Aids to detection and identification of individuals and increases hearing threshold and localization of sound sources. Furthermore, at high ranks higher forms of auditory perception are possible, such as detecting sounds produced much earlier in the past or hearing the sounds produced by spirits and other beings out of phase with the world.
    B – Capable of keeping track of and clearly identify and understand up to ten different auditory sources at the same time.
    * Discernment of the Poor: Insight to see through the opponent's character and attribute.
    A – He will not be deceived by excuses or deceptions from words. It is the natural insight of Shoutoku that reveals the drives of people, born from natural talent and the examination of human behavior from a very young age. Then again, the name of the Skill does not really suit him…
    * Syncretism: Knowledge of and ability to rely on multiple Thaumaturgical Systems.
    A – Harmonization of Buddhist, Taoist and Shinto principles. However, Shoutoku’s knowledge is more relevant for divination and ritual spells rather than for battle magic.


    Noble Phantasms:
    *
    へいししょうりんけん
    Court-branding Sword of Twelve Ranks

    (
    丙子椒林, Heishi Shourinken)

    Type: Anti-Army
    Rank: A++
    Range: 1-25
    Maximum number of targets: 12 people (11 + self)

    Prince Shoutoku’s secondary sword. For whatever reason, he favored Shichiseiken in spite of Heishi Shourinken’s clearly superior quality of craftsmanship. It might have something to do with its origin, being a gift of zealous Chinese dignitaries that never stopped looking down on the Land of the Rising Sun. The blade’s length is 65.1 centimeters, and the entire construction of the weapon is a masterpiece of East Asian art. In spite of their different origins, the characteristics of the blades suggest that Shichiseiken and Heishi Shourinken were forged with the same methods.

    The invocation of the sword’s true name creates a territory defined as Shoutoku’s Court of Twelve Ranks. Shoutoku then chooses a Parameter other than Magic or Noble Phantasm and forces a redefinition of the ranks of up to twelve people within the area of effect, including Shoutoku himself. The basic condition is that two subjects cannot have the same rank—in that situation, the individual worth of the two subjects is reevaluated: their history, legend, skills and feats are reexamined under Shoutoku’s fair judgment to decide who keeps their original rank and gets demoted or promoted. Note that this means the Noble Phantasm provides Shoutoku with the true identities of those targeted by its effect.

    As there are only five basic ranks (the letters A to E), in the case of there being more than five targets Shoutoku allocates contingent and limited boosts to the chosen Parameter (“plus-signs”) to grant higher-ranked “court members” a small advantage over lower-ranked targets. The triggering condition for these temporary boosts is always “at will one turn per day”, thus minimizing the advantage and preventing characters with plus-signs from fully overcoming characters with letter ranks higher in the scale. Rank A++ is the highest this Noble Phantasm can give to any one of its targets.

    Shoutoku himself is the last to have his rank redefined. As per his position in the original Court of Twelve Ranks, he is forcefully assigned the second highest rank among the Noble Phantasm’s targets. This redefinition of Parameter rank persists as long as Shoutoku Taishi is alive—while the effect came from the sword, it is sustained upon reality by the regent’s virtue as a lawgiver.


    *
    しちせいけん
    Spirit-Severing Sword of the Law

    (七星, Shichiseiken, Seven Stars Sword)
    Type: Anti-Army
    Rank: A++
    Range: 1-70
    Maximum number of targets: 850 people

    The legendary Seven Stars Sword of Eastern tradition; Shoutoku’s much loved blade can still be seen in his Shitennouji Temple in Osaka. A gift from Korean Taoists and an exorcism tool of the highest quality. The blade is exactly 62.1 centimeters long.

    By itself, the blade carries a potent ‘Anti-Spirit’ attribute, which makes its blade highly dangerous even to entities such as Servants. It is one of few weapons that can harm Servants even when in their dematerialized spirit form. The blade does not grant Shoutoku the ability to perceive dematerialized spirits, though. However, the real merit of the Seven Star Sword is the unique skill that its rightful wielder can use with it. It could be said, even, that the real Noble Phantasm is the special attack,
    ほくときんりんけん
    Mandala of Seventeen Articles
    (輪剣, Hokuto Kinrinken, Big Dipper Golden Wheel Sword), rather than the sword itself.

    The attack itself is defined as “a calamity for the sake of averting calamities”. To destroy that which would unleash destruction if left to their own devices; it could be considered a “multi-target” variation of the Sword of Promised Victory. It has become possible for Shoutoku to use this kind of attack because he has been deified by some as a manifestation of the Shaka Buddha, which is also depicted as the Shaka Kinrin which acts as the center of the Hokuto Mandala.

    After raising the sword horizontally above his head, a Hokuto Mandala is traced with glowing prana behind Shoutoku’s form. The inner circle of stars and planets collects the light of the stars above, intensifies it and collimates it within the framework of prana provided by the mandala. The result of unleashing the attack by slashing the air in front of him with the sword is a barrage of seventeen mowing waves of light that destroy everything in their path. Shoutoku can choose the direction of each beam, but naturally they move in a straight line when unleashed. Furthermore, in addition of the natural ‘Anti-Spirit’ attribute of the Shichiseiken, the waves of seventeen articles also carry an ‘Anti-Chaos’ property. Of course, the burst radius of each beam is considerably smaller than Excalibur’s, but Shoutoku makes up for this with the versatility of multiple firing directions and the capability to combine multiple beams if necessary.

    Furthermore, after unleashing Hokuto Kinrinken, Shoutoku receives the gift of the “Heavenly Eyes” of Myouken, Monarch of the Big Dipper. Until the next sunrise, Shoutoku receives the equivalent benefit of Clairvoyance Rank C.


    *
    いかるがでらのずめどのかんのん
    Magnificence of Guze Kannon

    (
    斑鳩寺の夢殿観音, Ikaruga-dera no Yumedono Kannon)
    Type: Anti-Unit
    Rank: A+
    Range: --
    Maximum number of targets: 1 person

    Shoutoku-Guze_pkk_484724b1aeccf679910732de316f555b.jpg

    The blessings of the Four Heavenly Kings have become part of Toyotomimi’s innate power due to his heroic exaltation and the reverence of the Shoutoku legend, named after the divine effigy of Shoutoku Taishi in Ikaruga-dera. Because a swift and overwhelming victory is also a form of compassion, Shoutoku’s passive Noble Phantasm imbues him with the supreme combat skills of a war god. However, this Noble Phantasm can only be used by a summoned Shoutoku whose full potential has been unlocked. At the very least, he must have been summoned in the vicinity of his center of government or his home town (Nara). As a passive ability, it incurs a constant expenditure of prana as long as it is active, which can make things difficult to all but the most capable of Masters.

    Shoutoku’s visual and auditory perception expands to surreal levels. His awareness of the desires filling people’s hearts is no longer a product of examination but an automatic and utterly supernatural divination of the roots of their souls. He will not fail to realize the identity of anyone he sees or hears, for their very foundation is exposed to his divine perception. His preternatural awareness and understanding of living existence grants him the equivalent of Instinct Rank A. Possessing perfect awareness of the nature, presence and intentions of others, Shoutoku becomes completely immune to mental interference, supernatural illusions and effects that hide the true form of others.

    However, the same gentle eyes that carry so many blessings can become the fierce gaze of the invincible war god. The gift of Bishamonten is the temporary transmutation of Shoutoku’s eyes into magical organs—Mystic Eyes of Intensification, labeled as Amber according to the Noble Colors system. Its effect is simply the supernatural investiture of kinetic energy to air particles and their subsequent collimation and redirection into a two-dimensional stream sharp as the finest blade. Its appearance as a “beam” is merely the reflection of light on the accelerated particles. While the eye-beam inflicts physical, cutting damage, it is treated as the equivalent of a B-rank spell, with an increased chance of inflicting critical damage.


    Background
    Kamitsumiya no Umayado no Toyosatomimi no Mikoto (上宮之厩戸豊聡耳命, 574-622). The greatest figure of the Asuka period, said to have initiated the Golden Age of Japan and perhaps the most outstanding character in the history of early Japan. His life and regency marked a turning-point in the cultural and political development of Yamato. Acknowledged as a saint and revered as a kami, the Shoutoku legend lives strongly in the hearts of the Japanese people. “Shoutoku” is in fact a posthumous title, appearing first in the Kaifuusou, a collection of Chinese poetry written by Japanese poets in the year 751.

    The number of legends associated with Shoutoku is astoundingly large. It is said that he was born brilliant, capable of speaking mere hours after birth and of reading and writing before he was three years old. He was supposedly called Umayado (“Prince of the Stable Door”) due to having being born outside a stable. This plus the tale that claims a divine figure appeared before his mother to announce the upcoming birth of Umayado reminds many of the similar depiction of the birth of Jesus Christ. Another legend claims that his mother, Empress Hashihito no Himemiko, bore him unexpectedly and with no labor pains while conducting a routine inspection of the imperial stable.

    Regardless of the circumstances of his birth, he was gifted with many talents and possessed the determination and ambition to work hard and put those many talents to use. Furthermore, he was astute enough to keep the full extent of his capabilities mostly to himself. In this way, he was able to listen into many conversations, as the people involved failed to realize the small child at their feet could in fact understand them. From their manner of speech, expressions, gestures and so on, the young prince learned to understand the emotions and desires of people. Although, it is likely that he was simply born with superior insight.

    When Shotoku was only thirteen years old his uncle, Emperor Bidatsu died, provoking a bloody struggle for royal succession between the heads of the Soga clan, who favored Oeno Oji, Umayado’s father, and the Mononobe clan who supported Anahobe no Miko as the new sovereign. Finally Prince Oe was victorious, and ascended the throne in September of 585 as Emperor Yōmei, the thirty-first emperor of Japan. Tradition holds that Emperor Yōmei once experienced a serious illness, but the young Shoutoku, impressed by the new Buddhist faith, prayed day and night by his father's side. Emperor Yōmei recovered and converted to Buddhism. This was the trigger of Mononobe no Moriya’s violent rebellion.

    The death of Emperor Yomei in 587 sparked another struggle between the Sogas and the Mononobes, ending in the killings of Prince Anahobe and Mononobe no Moriya at the hands of the Soga troops. Shotoku was involved in this campaign and prayed to the Shitennou (Four Heavenly Kings of Buddhism) for victory. Legend states that Shoutoku then received the martial might of Bishamonten, and that it was he who dealt the final blow on Moriya by means of a deathly beam shot from one of his eyes.

    Prince Hasebe, a son of one of Soga no Umako's younger sisters, ascended the throne as Emperor Sushun. Soon a strong animosity developed between the Emperor and his over-bearing uncle, Umako, and after reigning for only four years, Emperor Sushun was assassinated by one of Umako's retainers. Following the traditional order of succession, Princess Sukiya-hime ascended the throne as Empress Suiko, the first well-verified woman to hold this position. Soga no Umako nominated, as heir apparent and regent, not one of the Empress’ sons, but Prince Shoutoku. After all, Umako and Shoutoku had been allies since the prince’s early childhood. Umako recognized Shoutoku's leadership qualities and thought it prudent to keep him on the Soga side. Prince Shoutoku married Princess Udodonokaidako, daughter of Empress Suiko, and from then until his death, Shoutoku acted as the factual ruler of Japan.

    The political achievements of Shoutoku Taishi are well documented and can be found in any encyclopedia. He is remembered as the first and foremost supporter of Buddhism in Japan, in a manner comparable to what Ashoka the Great did in India. He fostered its acceptance as both a superior religious philosophy and a powerful political tool for creating strong centralized governance under the emperor's guidance. He is credited with numerous temples, centralizing state administration, importing Chinese bureaucracy, standardizing the ranks of the court using a color code (the Twelve Level Cap and Rank System), and enacting one of the earliest moral dictatorial documents in history: the Seventeen-article constitution. Of more interest to understanding Heroic Spirit Shoutoku are the works of his that never met the light of day.

    Regent Shoutoku did not want to die. While a devout Buddhist, he refused to accept the impermanence of all living things. As expected of a man so talented, he was profoundly ambitious, and wished to hold the reins of Japan forever, believing himself the only one capable of leading the budding nation. A stalwart Buddhist before his family and subjects, Shoutoku secretly submerged himself in the esoteric teachings long before they became known to the rest of Japan, even long before he became regent. He also read between the lines of Confucian and Taoist manuals, invited all sorts of mystics to his residence to be trained, and eventually developed a complex syncretic branch of ritual Thaumaturgy.

    It is well known that there are all sorts of odd details regarding the handling of Shoutoku’s funeral. Even the fact that he died the very next day after his wife passed away already strikes as suspicious. The normal practice for handling the death of a member of the royal family was to lay the body in a temporary shelter for a rather lengthy period during which a series of ceremonies were performed to placate and console the spirit of the deceased. However, when it came to Prince Shotoku, the Nihon Shoki says that this period was bypassed. Apparently he was buried within a very short time of his death. His death is recorded to have been on February 5, and the Nihon Shoki uses the phrase "within that month" to describe how quickly he was buried. It doesn't record how many days he lay in state, but one would have expected that for such a great man who had contributed so much to his country, a particularly long period of mourning would have been called for. That, however, was not the case. This has lead to many theories of foul play involving his death, further emboldened by the fate of his son, who was forced by the treasonous and greedy Soga clan to commit suicide together with his whole family, thus ending Shoutoku’s line.

    The truth is, Shoutoku never really “died”. What he achieved cannot be truly called “reincarnation”. The self-sustaining ritual he performed allows for automatic reincarnation upon death. However, every time he dies he needs to transmute and warp his soul just enough to “fool” Akasha into “believing” the soul is not Shoutoku’s, while the soul itself needs to maintain awareness of its identity. After well over twenty such reincarnations, what remains can only barely be called “Shoutoku”. Personality, goals, knowledge and magical ability—all these things have been warped beyond repair. Only the core self-awareness—“I am Shoutoku”—and his immense natural talents remain unchanged with each rebirth, for they are bound to the very core of his distorted soul. So, while the Heroic Spirit residing in the Throne of Heroes is the original Toyosatomimi no Mikoto who “passed away” on the year 622, there is still a Shoutoku still out there, acting on whatever whim currently drives his magnificently talented mind. Naturally, Heroic Spirit Shoutoku would know his true self is probably out there in some other form, and would likely be curious to see his fate in the present time. To see the kind of aimless, vague existence he has become would probably turn to be quite the shock.


    Keyword
    Ambiguous Gender – While Shoutoku is well known to have been originally a man, as a Heroic Spirit he can be summoned as a member of either gender. The female appearance of Shoutoku is most likely inspired the tale of the monk Shinran, to whom supposedly Shoutoku appeared in his dreams as a manifestation of Guse Kannon, the Bodhisattva of Compassion. According to the legend, Shinran’s wife was in fact the incarnation of Shoutoku and, by proxy, of Kannon itself.
    Last edited by Daneel Rush; November 17th, 2012 at 07:35 AM.

  8. #2608
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Rush View Post
    Okay, I hope this turned out interesting.

    Servant Saber

    SHOUTOKU TAISHI
    Servant: Saber

    Gender: Either (See Keywords section)

    Shoutoku-male_shirugeru_5931a352f845635a87f3abe8f64c757e.jpgShoutoku-female_kabayaki-unagi_0da4fc3847dbc82d36dc663561645a92.jpg

    Alignment:
    Lawful Neutral


    Strength C
    Endurance B
    Agility B
    Magic C
    Luck B
    Noble Phantasm A++


    Class Skills:
    * Magic Resistance: Grants protection against magical effects.
    B – Cancels spells with a chant below three verses. Even if targeted by High-Thaumaturgy and Greater Rituals, it is difficult for him to be affected.
    * Riding: Expertise to ride animals and vehicles.
    C – The basic skill granted by the Saber class. Allows for above-average handling of natural mounts and ordinary vehicles, but performance is merely average when dealing with complex modern military vessels.

    Personal Skills:
    * Clairaudience: Superior auditory perception. Aids to detection and identification of individuals and increases hearing threshold and localization of sound sources. Furthermore, at high ranks higher forms of auditory perception are possible, such as detecting sounds produced much earlier in the past or hearing the sounds produced by spirits and other beings out of phase with the world.
    B – Capable of keeping track of and clearly identify and understand up to ten different auditory sources at the same time.
    * Discernment of the Poor: Insight to see through the opponent's character and attribute.
    A – He will not be deceived by excuses or deceptions from words. It is the natural insight of Shoutoku that reveals the drives of people, born from natural talent and the examination of human behavior from a very young age. Then again, the name of the Skill does not really suit him…
    * Syncretism: Knowledge of and ability to rely on multiple Thaumaturgical Systems.
    A – Harmonization of Buddhist, Taoist and Shinto principles. However, Shoutoku’s knowledge is more relevant for divination and ritual spells rather than for battle magic.


    Noble Phantasms:
    *
    Court-branding Sword of Twelve Ranks
    へいししょうりんけん

    (
    丙子椒林, Heishi Shourinken)

    Type: Anti-Army
    Rank: A++
    Range: 1-25
    Maximum number of targets: 12 people (11 + self)

    Prince Shoutoku’s secondary sword. For whatever reason, he favored Shichiseiken in spite of Heishi Shourinken’s clearly superior quality of craftsmanship. It might have something to do with its origin, being a gift of zealous Chinese dignitaries that never stopped looking down on the Land of the Rising Sun. The blade’s length is 65.1 centimeters, and the entire construction of the weapon is a masterpiece of East Asian art. In spite of their different origins, the characteristics of the blades suggest that Shichiseiken and Heishi Shourinken were forged with the same methods.

    Shoutoku’s color system had twelve different levels; it just so happens that the Servant Parameter system has eleven quantitative ranks, from E to A++. Heishi Shourinken is the blade that imposes its lord’s system upon the Heaven’s Feel. Shoutoku Taishi selects one Parameter other than Magic or Noble Phantasm. Naturally, according to his own status in the Twelve Colors system, he automatically receives the second highest rank (A+). All others targeted by the Noble Phantasm have their ranks adjusted symmetrically starting from the middle rank (C+) and moving outwards towards both edges of the rank spectrum. Thus, the first Servant besides Shoutoku would always get rank C+, the second would get either rank C or rank B, while the third would automatically get whatever value Shoutoku did not assign to the second Servant between C and B, and so on. Since the standard Heaven’s Feel would be limited to six other Servants besides Shoutoku, it means that unfortunately for him none of the Servants would end with dramatically low ranks, but at the same time it implies he would not be forced to give high ranks to some of his opponents. In the rare circumstance of there being eleven other Servants to target with the Sword of Twelve Ranks, the last one would get rank C+ as well.

    The condition for the temporary modifiers (plus signs) is simply “one round per day”.


    *
    Spirit-Severing Sword of the Law
    しちせいけん

    (七星, Shichiseiken, Seven Stars Sword)
    Type: Anti-Army
    Rank: A++
    Range: 1-70
    Maximum number of targets: 850 people

    The legendary Seven Stars Sword of Eastern tradition; Shoutoku’s much loved blade can still be seen in his Shitennouji Temple in Osaka. A gift from Korean Taoists and an exorcism tool of the highest quality. The blade is exactly 62.1 centimeters long.

    By itself, the blade carries a potent ‘Anti-Spirit’ attribute, which makes its blade highly dangerous even to entities such as Servants. It is one of few weapons that can harm Servants even when in their dematerialized spirit form. The blade does not grant Shoutoku the ability to perceive dematerialized spirits, though. However, the real merit of the Seven Star Sword is the unique skill that its rightful wielder can use with it. It could be said, even, that the real Noble Phantasm is the special attack,
    Mandala of Seventeen Articles
    ほくときんりんけん
    (輪剣, Hokuto Kinrinken, Big Dipper Golden Wheel Sword), rather than the sword itself.

    The attack itself is defined as “a calamity for the sake of averting calamities”. To destroy that which would unleash destruction if left to their own devices; it could be considered a “multi-target” variation of the Sword of Promised Victory. It has become possible for Shoutoku to use this kind of attack because he has been deified by some as a manifestation of the Shaka Buddha, which is also depicted as the Shaka Kinrin which acts as the center of the Hokuto Mandala.

    After raising the sword horizontally above his head, a Hokuto Mandala is traced with glowing prana behind Shoutoku’s form. The inner circle of stars and planets collects the light of the stars above, intensifies it and collimates it within the framework of prana provided by the mandala. The result of unleashing the attack by slashing the air in front of him with the sword is a barrage of seventeen mowing waves of light that destroy everything in their path. Shoutoku can choose the direction of each beam, but naturally they move in a straight line when unleashed. Furthermore, in addition of the natural ‘Anti-Spirit’ attribute of the Shichiseiken, the waves of seventeen articles also carry an ‘Anti-Chaos’ property. Of course, the burst radius of each beam is considerably smaller than Excalibur’s, but Shoutoku makes up for this with the versatility of multiple firing directions and the capability to combine multiple beams if necessary.

    Furthermore, after unleashing Hokuto Kinrinken, Shoutoku receives the gift of the “Heavenly Eyes” of Myouken, Monarch of the Big Dipper. Until the next sunrise, Shoutoku receives the equivalent benefit of Clairvoyance Rank C.


    *
    Magnificence of Guze Kannon
    いかるがでらのずめどのかんのん

    (
    斑鳩寺の夢殿観音, Ikaruga-dera no Yumedono Kannon)
    Type: Anti-Unit
    Rank: A+
    Range: --
    Maximum number of targets: 1 person

    Shoutoku-Guze_pkk_484724b1aeccf679910732de316f555b.jpg

    The blessings of the Four Heavenly Kings have become part of Toyotomimi’s innate power due to his heroic exaltation and the reverence of the Shoutoku legend, named after the divine effigy of Shoutoku Taishi in Ikaruga-dera. Because a swift and overwhelming victory is also a form of compassion, Shoutoku’s passive Noble Phantasm imbues him with the supreme combat skills of a war god. However, this Noble Phantasm can only be used by a summoned Shoutoku whose full potential has been unlocked. At the very least, he must have been summoned in the vicinity of his center of government or his home town (Nara). As a passive ability, it incurs a constant expenditure of prana as long as it is active, which can make things difficult to all but the most capable of Masters.

    Shoutoku’s visual and auditory perception expands to surreal levels. His awareness of the desires filling people’s hearts is no longer a product of examination but an automatic and utterly supernatural divination of the roots of their souls. He will not fail to realize the identity of anyone he sees or hears, for their very foundation is exposed to his divine perception. His preternatural awareness and understanding of living existence grants him the equivalent of Instinct Rank A. Possessing perfect awareness of the nature, presence and intentions of others, Shoutoku becomes completely immune to mental interference, supernatural illusions and effects that hide the true form of others.

    However, the same gentle eyes that carry so many blessings can become the fierce gaze of the invincible war god. The gift of Bishamonten is the temporary transmutation of Shoutoku’s eyes into magical organs—Mystic Eyes of Intensification, labeled as Amber according to the Noble Colors system. Its effect is simply the supernatural investiture of kinetic energy to air particles and their subsequent collimation and redirection into a two-dimensional stream sharp as the finest blade. Its appearance as a “beam” is merely the reflection of light on the accelerated particles. While the eye-beam inflicts physical, cutting damage, it is treated as the equivalent of a B-rank spell, with an increased chance of inflicting critical damage.


    Background
    Kamitsumiya no Umayado no Toyosatomimi no Mikoto (上宮之厩戸豊聡耳命, 574-622). The greatest figure of the Asuka period, said to have initiated the Golden Age of Japan and perhaps the most outstanding character in the history of early Japan. His life and regency marked a turning-point in the cultural and political development of Yamato. Acknowledged as a saint and revered as a kami, the Shoutoku legend lives strongly in the hearts of the Japanese people. “Shoutoku” is in fact a posthumous title, appearing first in the Kaifuusou, a collection of Chinese poetry written by Japanese poets in the year 751.

    The number of legends associated with Shoutoku is astoundingly large. It is said that he was born brilliant, capable of speaking mere hours after birth and of reading and writing before he was three years old. He was supposedly called Umayado (“Prince of the Stable Door”) due to having being born outside a stable. This plus the tale that claims a divine figure appeared before his mother to announce the upcoming birth of Umayado reminds many of the similar depiction of the birth of Jesus Christ. Another legend claims that his mother, Empress Hashihito no Himemiko, bore him unexpectedly and with no labor pains while conducting a routine inspection of the imperial stable.

    Regardless of the circumstances of his birth, he was gifted with many talents and possessed the determination and ambition to work hard and put those many talents to use. Furthermore, he was astute enough to keep the full extent of his capabilities mostly to himself. In this way, he was able to listen into many conversations, as the people involved failed to realize the small child at their feet could in fact understand them. From their manner of speech, expressions, gestures and so on, the young prince learned to understand the emotions and desires of people. Although, it is likely that he was simply born with superior insight.

    When Shotoku was only thirteen years old his uncle, Emperor Bidatsu died, provoking a bloody struggle for royal succession between the heads of the Soga clan, who favored Oeno Oji, Umayado’s father, and the Mononobe clan who supported Anahobe no Miko as the new sovereign. Finally Prince Oe was victorious, and ascended the throne in September of 585 as Emperor Yōmei, the thirty-first emperor of Japan. Tradition holds that Emperor Yōmei once experienced a serious illness, but the young Shoutoku, impressed by the new Buddhist faith, prayed day and night by his father's side. Emperor Yōmei recovered and converted to Buddhism. This was the trigger of Mononobe no Moriya’s violent rebellion.

    The death of Emperor Yomei in 587 sparked another struggle between the Sogas and the Mononobes, ending in the killings of Prince Anahobe and Mononobe no Moriya at the hands of the Soga troops. Shotoku was involved in this campaign and prayed to the Shitennou (Four Heavenly Kings of Buddhism) for victory. Legend states that Shoutoku then received the martial might of Bishamonten, and that it was he who dealt the final blow on Moriya by means of a deathly beam shot from one of his eyes.

    Prince Hasebe, a son of one of Soga no Umako's younger sisters, ascended the throne as Emperor Sushun. Soon a strong animosity developed between the Emperor and his over-bearing uncle, Umako, and after reigning for only four years, Emperor Sushun was assassinated by one of Umako's retainers. Following the traditional order of succession, Princess Sukiya-hime ascended the throne as Empress Suiko, the first well-verified woman to hold this position. Soga no Umako nominated, as heir apparent and regent, not one of the Empress’ sons, but Prince Shoutoku. After all, Umako and Shoutoku had been allies since the prince’s early childhood. Umako recognized Shoutoku's leadership qualities and thought it prudent to keep him on the Soga side. Prince Shoutoku married Princess Udodonokaidako, daughter of Empress Suiko, and from then until his death, Shoutoku acted as the factual ruler of Japan.

    The political achievements of Shoutoku Taishi are well documented and can be found in any encyclopedia. He is remembered as the first and foremost supporter of Buddhism in Japan, in a manner comparable to what Ashoka the Great did in India. He fostered its acceptance as both a superior religious philosophy and a powerful political tool for creating strong centralized governance under the emperor's guidance. He is credited with numerous temples, centralizing state administration, importing Chinese bureaucracy, standardizing the ranks of the court using a color code (the Twelve Level Cap and Rank System), and enacting one of the earliest moral dictatorial documents in history: the Seventeen-article constitution. Of more interest to understanding Heroic Spirit Shoutoku are the works of his that never met the light of day.

    Regent Shoutoku did not want to die. While a devout Buddhist, he refused to accept the impermanence of all living things. As expected of a man so talented, he was profoundly ambitious, and wished to hold the reins of Japan forever, believing himself the only one capable of leading the budding nation. A stalwart Buddhist before his family and subjects, Shoutoku secretly submerged himself in the esoteric teachings long before they became known to the rest of Japan, even long before he became regent. He also read between the lines of Confucian and Taoist manuals, invited all sorts of mystics to his residence to be trained, and eventually developed a complex syncretic branch of ritual Thaumaturgy.

    It is well known that there are all sorts of odd details regarding the handling of Shoutoku’s funeral. Even the fact that he died the very next day after his wife passed away already strikes as suspicious. The normal practice for handling the death of a member of the royal family was to lay the body in a temporary shelter for a rather lengthy period during which a series of ceremonies were performed to placate and console the spirit of the deceased. However, when it came to Prince Shotoku, the Nihon Shoki says that this period was bypassed. Apparently he was buried within a very short time of his death. His death is recorded to have been on February 5, and the Nihon Shoki uses the phrase "within that month" to describe how quickly he was buried. It doesn't record how many days he lay in state, but one would have expected that for such a great man who had contributed so much to his country, a particularly long period of mourning would have been called for. That, however, was not the case. This has lead to many theories of foul play involving his death, further emboldened by the fate of his son, who was forced by the treasonous and greedy Soga clan to commit suicide together with his whole family, thus ending Shoutoku’s line.

    The truth is, Shoutoku never really “died”. What he achieved cannot be truly called “reincarnation”. The self-sustaining ritual he performed allows for automatic reincarnation upon death. However, every time he dies he needs to transmute and warp his soul just enough to “fool” Akasha into “believing” the soul is not Shoutoku’s, while the soul itself needs to maintain awareness of its identity. After well over twenty such reincarnations, what remains can only barely be called “Shoutoku”. Personality, goals, knowledge and magical ability—all these things have been warped beyond repair. Only the core self-awareness—“I am Shoutoku”—and his immense natural talents remain unchanged with each rebirth, for they are bound to the very core of his distorted soul. So, while the Heroic Spirit residing in the Throne of Heroes is the original Toyosatomimi no Mikoto who “passed away” on the year 622, there is still a Shoutoku still out there, acting on whatever whim currently drives his magnificently talented mind. Naturally, Heroic Spirit Shoutoku would know his true self is probably out there in some other form, and would likely be curious to see his fate in the present time. To see the kind of aimless, vague existence he has become would probably turn to be quite the shock.


    Keyword
    Ambiguous Gender – While Shoutoku is well known to have been originally a man, as a Heroic Spirit he can be summoned as a member of either gender. The female appearance of Shoutoku is most likely inspired the tale of the monk Shinran, to whom supposedly Shoutoku appeared in his dreams as a manifestation of Guse Kannon, the Bodhisattva of Compassion. According to the legend, Shinran’s wife was in fact the incarnation of Shoutoku and, by proxy, of Kannon itself.
    Whoa! He is very powerful, but at the same time not quite so insanely haxx (unless you summon him in Nara) as to be overly wanked! Love it!

    I just have two questions.

    I'm confused about the Heishi Shourinken. I get that it gives Shoutoku an A+ Rank in one stat of his choosing (save Magic and NP) and rearranges the stats of the other competitors, but how he can rearrange them and your explanantion for how it worked confuses me a little (maybe because I don't know this Twelve Rank system of his).

    Secondly, if I am understanding you correctly, his soul reincarnates, but Akasha doesn't completely wipe it clean. Is that correct or did I misunderstand the explanation there?

    Also, as an additional treat for your awesome profile, a badass picture of the female Shoutoku:

    http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/...s-bare_shoulde

  9. #2609
    Time to burn some dread Daneel Rush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    I'm confused about the Heishi Shourinken. I get that it gives Shoutoku an A+ Rank in one stat of his choosing (save Magic and NP) and rearranges the stats of the other competitors, but how he can rearrange them and your explanantion for how it worked confuses me a little (maybe because I don't know this Twelve Rank system of his).
    Okay, let's try to explain it.

    Take the eleven Parameter ranks: E - E+ - D - D+ - C - C+ - B - B+ - A - A+ - A++.

    Now assume Shoutoku somehow got all the other six Servants within range of Heishi Shourinken. He picks STR, so he automatically gets STR A+, the second highest Rank. Then he picks the "first target", who automatically gets Rank C+, the "middle value". From then on, Shoutoku can spread the Ranks in a "center-to-outside" pattern. That means the second target can only receive either C-rank or B-rank (the values around C+). If the second target receives B-rank, then the third would get C-rank, and vice versa. Then the fourth and fifth targets would get either D+ or B+ in the same manner, and the sixth and final target could only get either D-rank or A-rank.

    Secondly, if I am understanding you correctly, his soul reincarnates, but Akasha doesn't completely wipe it clean. Is that correct or did I misunderstand the explanation there?
    It is Shoutoku himself who has altered his soul in such a way that it "fools" Akasha. Something like, "wait, this is not the soul I'm supposed to collect" and then bam, back to the world, and the Shoutoku takes over another body. He's like Roa, although the principle is a little different. For all you know they might know each other.

  10. #2610
    Cruciforme NailsInYourFeet's Avatar
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    Still not sure if I put him in the most appropriate class. While he himself isn't necessarily Berserker, the Troupe overall are far too direct in their damage (to put it mildly) that making him Assassin would come off as hypocritical.

    I believe that everyone possesses a spirit, that's why I want to know the biggest wish of the dead. So I can complete it.
    Class ~ Caster


    True Identity ~ Chrollo Lucilfer

    Series ~ Hunter x Hunter

    Alignment ~ Lawful Good (within the Troupe), Chaotic Evil (outside of it).

    Appearance ~ Solo / All together now


    Stats


    Strength (C) ***--
    Endurance (B) ****-
    Agility (B) ****-
    Magic (A) *****
    Luck (B) ****-

    (Possibly the one area I'm most unsure of about him and may need some input and revision)


    Class Skills


    Territory Creation (Rank D)

    The ability to create terrain suitable for usage as a Magus.

    At this Ranking, the creation of a 'Hideout' becomes possible.

    Item Construction (Original Rank B, lowered to E)

    Capacity to manufacture magical items.

    Despite having the most aptitude for Conjuration Nen after Specialisation, Chrollo personally tends to neglect this Skill, apart from when summoning Bandit's Secret. I mean, if Chrollo wanted any particular item for whatever reason, he'd rather go out and steal it.


    Personal Abilities


    Charisma (Rank D+)

    A rare skill; the talent to lead an army and bring out the maximum potential of allies in group battles.

    At a level allowing for Caster to inspire and lead a select group of his preferred number.

    Golden Rule (Rank B-)

    The fortune to acquire wealth and eliminate monetary problems.

    At this Rank money can be easily attained, though still must be sought out. A minus is added as Caster has hardly any interest in however high a fortune he acquires, tending to dispose to any wealth no matter how great the lengths he went through for it in the first place.

    Information Erasure (Rank C)

    The ability to erase any information that could lead to the reveal of the Servant's identity at the end of any given encounter.

    Born in Meteor City, the official trashheap of its world, Chrollo Lucilfer is officially a non-existent entity, at least on any govermental documents or listings.

    Mental Pollution (Rank A)

    Due to possessing a distorted worldview it becomes possible to shut out any Mental Interference Thaumaturgy, yet at the same time it becomes difficult to reach an understanding with anyone not possessing an equivalent Rank of pollution.

    Being a child of Meteor City and member of the Phantom Troupe alone would be enough to qualify anyone for this Skill, however Chrollo seems to be a very particular case. He can go from committing terrible atrocities to the most generous acts to the hardest endeavours, all for no apparent reason or reward. it's possible his midset doesn't make sense even to him, as he himself states he has no idea why he does the things he does.


    Noble Phantasms


    ~ Skill Hunter - The Bandit's Secret (Rank A, Anti-Personnel) ~

    A conjured book that enables him to 'steal' the enemy Servant's Noble Phantasm for his own usage, naturally removing their own ability to use it.

    To do this, four conditions must first be met: he must witness the Noble Phantasm in action, must inquire about its usage from the Servant and be answered, must have the enemy Servant place their palm upon the hand adorning the book's cover, and must do all of this within the hour.

    Each Phantasm is allocated to a certain page in the book, with Chrollo needing to open the book to this page in order to use it, meaning he can only use one stolen NP at a time. Additionally if the original Servant he stole it from is defeated the NP will be lost with them.

    It is notable that Caster still appears to have the Kurapika's Judgment Chain inside him, yet as a Servant he is able to use Skill Hunter despite this due to his powers relying on Prana now rather than Nen. By expending Prana instead of Aura to use Skill Hunter it is possible the 'restrictions' Chrollo places on the technique would no longer be necessary, yet he must still abide by them anyway due to them being part of the book's 'legend'.

    The Bandit's Secret comes pre-packaged with four abilities Chrollo himself stole in his lifetime: the use of basic teleportation on himself and others, the summoning of two flesh-devouring 'Indoor Fish' in sealed rooms, a 'Fun Fun Cloth' which can expand and shrink itself and anything or anyone caught in it, and 'Lovely Ghostwriter' which can foretell a person's future if certain possessions of theirs are gathered beforehand.


    ~ Phantom Troupe - The Twelve-Legged Spider (Rank A, Anti-Battalion) ~

    The absolutely monstrous group of thieves formed by Chrollo Lucilfer, infamous less for what they actually stole and more for the massive amounts of death and destruction they unleashed in the process.

    As its founder Caster has the capacity to mark anyone of his choosing (except other Servants) as a member of the Phantom Troupe, planting the symbol of a twelve-legged spider with a randomly assigned number somewhere on their body.
    Becoming part of the Phantom Troupe will boost all abilities and possibly grant an Anti-Battalion effect to attacks when attempting to steal something, make it especially hard to inflict harm on Chrollo or any other Troupe member as all disputes shall be settled by coin tosses, and fills them with enough knowledge of Prana to simulate the effects of Nen.

    Due to Caster's own preferences however, the Phantom Troupe may not consist of more than thirteen members, at least at a time.

    If it weren't for the Judgment Chain around his heart forbidding any contact with the Troupe as he knew it, he would also have the ability to summon Wraiths based on its fellow founding members, each imitating a specific Servant class (Machi - Lancer, Uvogin - Berserker, Pakunoda - Assassin, Franklin - Archer and Nobunaga - Saber).

    (While I was dead set on making the Phantom Troupe itself one of his NPs, coming up with an exact effect for itwas a bit hard and may possibly be revised)

  11. #2611
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Rush View Post
    Okay, let's try to explain it.

    Take the eleven Parameter ranks: E - E+ - D - D+ - C - C+ - B - B+ - A - A+ - A++.

    Now assume Shoutoku somehow got all the other six Servants within range of Heishi Shourinken. He picks STR, so he automatically gets STR A+, the second highest Rank. Then he picks the "first target", who automatically gets Rank C+, the "middle value". From then on, Shoutoku can spread the Ranks in a "center-to-outside" pattern. That means the second target can only receive either C-rank or B-rank (the values around C+). If the second target receives B-rank, then the third would get C-rank, and vice versa. Then the fourth and fifth targets would get either D+ or B+ in the same manner, and the sixth and final target could only get either D-rank or A-rank.
    Interesting, though rather bizarre set-up there. But what about A+++? Or EX? Those are Parameter Rankings, so technically the system is 13 Parameters, not 11 (and that's not including '-'/minuses).

    Quote Originally Posted by NailsInYourFeet View Post
    Still not sure if I put him in the most appropriate class. While he himself isn't necssarily Berserker, the Troupe overall are far too direct in their damage (to put it mildly) that making him Assassin would come off as hypocritical.

    I believe that everyone possesses a spirit, that's why I want to know the biggest wish of the dead. So I can complete it.
    Class ~ Caster


    True Identity ~ Chrollo Lucilfer

    Series ~ Hunter x Hunter

    Alignment ~ Lawful Good (within the Troupe), Chaotic Evil (outside of it).

    Appearance ~ Solo / All together now


    Stats


    Strength (D) **---
    Endurance (C) ***--
    Agility (C) ***--
    Magic (A) *****
    Luck (B) ****-

    (Possibly the one area I'm most unsure of about him and may need some input and revision)


    Class Skills


    Territory Creation (Rank D)

    The ability to create terrain suitable for usage as a Magus.

    At this Ranking, the creation of a 'Hideout' becomes possible.

    Item Construction (Original Rank B, lowered to E)

    Capacity to manufacture magical items.

    Despite having the most aptitude for Conjuration Nen after Specialisation, Chrollo personally tends to neglect this Skill, apart from when summoning Bandit's Secret. I mean, if Chrollo wanted any particular item for whatever reason, he'd rather go out and steal it.


    Personal Abilities


    Charisma (Rank D+)

    A rare skill; the talent to lead an army and bring out the maximum potential of allies in group battles.

    At a level allowing for Caster to inspire and lead a select group of his preferred number.

    Golden Rule (Rank B-)

    The fortune to acquire wealth and eliminate monetary problems.

    At this Rank money can be easily attained, though still must be sought out. A minus is added as Caster has hardly any interest in however high a fortune he acquires, tending to dispose to any wealth no matter how great the lengths he went through for it in the first place.

    Information Erasure (Rank C)

    The ability to erase any information that could lead to the reveal of the Servant's identity at the end of any given encounter.

    Born in Meteor City, the official trashheap of its world, Chrollo Lucilfer is officially a non-existent entity, at least on any govermental documents or listings.

    Mental Pollution (Rank A)

    Due to possessing a distorted worldview it becomes possible to shut out any Mental Interference Thaumaturgy, yet at the same time it becomes difficult to reach an understanding with anyone not possessing an equivalent Rank of pollution.

    Being a child of Meteor City and member of the Phantom Troupe alone would be enough to qualify anyone for this Skill, however Chrollo seems to be a very particular case. He can go from committing terrible atrocities to the most generous acts to the hardest endeavours, all for no apparent reason or reward. it's possible his midset doesn't make sense even to him, as he himself states he has no idea why he does the things he does.


    Noble Phantasms


    ~ Skill Hunter - The Bandit's Secret (Rank A, Anti-Personnel) ~

    A conjured book that enables him to 'steal' the enemy Servant's Noble Phantasm for his own usage, naturally removing their own ability to use it.

    To do this, four conditions must first be met: he must witness the Noble Phantasm in action, must inquire about its usage from the Servant and be answered, must have the enemy Servant place their palm upon the hand adorning the book's cover, and must do all of this within the hour.

    Each Phantasm is allocated to a certain page in the book, with Chrollo needing to open the book to this page in order to use it, meaning he can only use one stolen NP at a time. Additionally if the original Servant he stole it from is defeated the NP will be lost with them.

    It is notable that Caster still appears to have the Kurapika's Judgment Chain inside him, yet as a Servant he is able to use Skill Hunter despite this due to his powers relying on Prana now rather than Nen. By expending Prana instead of Aura to use Skill Hunter it is possible the 'restrictions' Chrollo places on the technique would no longer be necessary, yet he must still abide by them anyway due to them being part of the book's 'legend'.

    The Bandit's Secret comes pre-packaged with four abilities Chrollo himself stole in his lifetime: the use of basic teleportation on himself and others, the summoning of two flesh-devouring 'Indoor Fish' in sealed rooms, a 'Fun Fun Cloth' which can expand and shrink itself and anything or anyone caught in it, and 'Lovely Ghostwriter' which can foretell a person's future if certain possessions of theirs are gathered beforehand.


    ~ Phantom Troupe - The Twelve-Legged Spider (Rank A, Anti-Battalion) ~

    The aboslutely mosntrous group of thieves formed by Chrollo Lucilfer, infamous less for what they actually stole and more for the massive amounts of death and destruction they unleashed in the process.

    As its founder Caster has the capacity to mark anyone of his choosing (except other Servants) as a member of the Phantom Troupe, planting the symbol of a twelve-legged spider with a randomly assigned number somewhere on their body.
    Becoming part of the Phantom Troupe will boost all abilities and possibly grant an Anti-Battalion effect to attacks when attempting to steal something, make it especially hard to inflict harm on Chrollo or any other Troupe member as all disputes shall be settled by coin tosses, and fills them with enough knowledge of Prana to simulate the effects of Nen.

    Due to Caster's own preferences however, the Phantom Troupe may not consist of more than thirteen members, at least at a time.

    If it weren't for the Judgment Chain around his heart forbidding any contact with the Troupe as he knew it, he would also have the ability to summon Wraiths based on its fellow founding members, each imitating a specific Servant class (Machi - Lancer, Uvogin - Berserker, Pakunoda - Assassin, Franklin - Archer and Nobunaga - Saber).

    (While I was dead set on making the Phantom Troupe itself one of his NPs, coming up with an exact effect for itwas a bit hard and may possibly be revised)
    My only real point of contension is his stats. They are way too low. He was tanking attacks from Killua's dad and grandpa so his END at least should be higher. They are definitely too low for him to make decent use of Bandit's Secret. No way is he disabling any decently strong Servant to the necessary extent without killing them or their Master freeing them with a Command Spell.

    It wouldn't even work with weak Servants since he needs them to personally explain the ability to them and only the stupidest of Servants would do so. He's basically stuck relying on the Fun Fun Cloth, Indoor Fish, the teleportation, and Lovely Ghostwriter. It's too bad, but without the actual Genei Ryodan to help him capture strong people he's kind of screwed. Even Nasuverse Magi have incredibly high pain tolerances so torture will take some time, and I can't even imagine it working at all on most Servants. He's an interesting Servant, but he has way too many restrictions tacked on for him to really go the distance.

    I can't imagine how freaking scary the Chimera Ant King would be though... brrrr!!

  12. #2612
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    Interesting, though rather bizarre set-up there. But what about A+++? Or EX? Those are Parameter Rankings, so technically the system is 13 Parameters, not 11 (and that's not including '-'/minuses)
    A+++ only exists in Fate/EXTRA, make of that what you will.
    Last edited by Petrikow; July 29th, 2012 at 03:02 PM.

  13. #2613
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Couldn't there be any number of + after something.

    C+++++
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  14. #2614
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Rush View Post
    Okay, let's try to explain it.

    Take the eleven Parameter ranks: E - E+ - D - D+ - C - C+ - B - B+ - A - A+ - A++.

    Now assume Shoutoku somehow got all the other six Servants within range of Heishi Shourinken. He picks STR, so he automatically gets STR A+, the second highest Rank. Then he picks the "first target", who automatically gets Rank C+, the "middle value". From then on, Shoutoku can spread the Ranks in a "center-to-outside" pattern. That means the second target can only receive either C-rank or B-rank (the values around C+). If the second target receives B-rank, then the third would get C-rank, and vice versa. Then the fourth and fifth targets would get either D+ or B+ in the same manner, and the sixth and final target could only get either D-rank or A-rank.
    Ugh, using the + modifier on the intermediate steps is a huge mistake. Technically, C+ can exceed A... etc. Fuck it, this is the last drop, I've had enough of this overuse of E+(+), D+(+), C+(+), B+(+) nonsense.

    Let's list all the times E+(+), D+(+), C+(+) and B+(+) are used in Fate/Stay Night: TWO TIMES. Gae Bolg thrown version (B+) and Kojiro's Vitrification (B+).
    Let's list all the times E+(+), D+(+), C+(+) and B+(+) are used in Fate/Zero: ONCE. Hundred-faced Hassan's Delusional Illusion (B+).

    "But why aren't you including A+ and A++ in this shizzle, Petrikow?" Because Nasu seriously just uses that as the next progression from A, not just in Fate either, as he actually does it when he makes those small Magus magical circuits rankings as well. Basically, in terms of progression it goes E > D > C > B > A > A+ > A++.

    "But these four clearly exist... so when can we use them?" Clearly? C+ first showed up in Fate/EXTRA and C++, B++ first showed up in Fate/Apocrypha, E+(+), D+(+), has never appeared, ever. but I digress, they do exist. They're meant to be a situational two/three times boost in power, so "most of the time B, but if X is fulfilled then B+", this is of course best illustrated by Gae Bolg, which has its rank elevated when used in its thrown version. Naturally, there are a number of problems with this as well, because Vitrification clearly doesn't seem to abide to this ruling, but hey, could just be the graphic designer making a mistake, lawl.

    "But this just seems unintuitive" Oh yeah, classic Nasu.

    "Why didn't you mention EX?" Don't wanna open that can of worms just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Couldn't there be any number of + after something.

    C+++++
    Probably not. Fate tells us that A+++ Noble Phantasms, for example, most likely don't exist because Gate of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works only range E~A++.

    Also when Saber becomes Saber Alter she caps out at A++ MGI, but this is a bit of a weaker evidence I suppose.

  15. #2615
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Rush View Post
    Take the eleven Parameter ranks: E - E+ - D - D+ - C - C+ - B - B+ - A - A+ - A++
    Wut. For a start, all the 'X-' ranks are missing, the use of ++ only for A-rank looks really arbitrary, and why no EX? (It's a classification, even if it indicates that all the others don't work). Seriously, what was going on here?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, hi all those other posts, where did you come from?
    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
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    Updated 01/01/15

    If posts are off-topic, trolling, terrible or offensive, please allow me to do my job. Reporting keeps your forum healthy.
    Seika moderates: modly clarifications, explanations, Q&A, and the British conspiracy to de-codify BL's constitution.

    Democracy on Beast's Lair

  16. #2616
    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Oh, hi all those other posts, where did you come from?
    ItsMagicIDontGotToExplainShit.jpg

  17. #2617
    Time to burn some dread Daneel Rush's Avatar
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    Well, first of all, Heishi Shourinken applies only to Parameters, in which so far I have yet to see a single minus sign. I have no interest in Skill (in which plus signs seem to imply bonus effects rather than mere addition of quantitative power) or NP ranks (which couldn't be more arbitrary). Furthermore, I considered the limitations of the sword as a NP and decided it would be ludicrous of it to have the power to grant the ridiculous A+++ (which has so far only appeared as a Skill rank) and EX ranks.

    As for the order of the ranks I put up there, while it is true that C+ is by all means superior to A, I included the very specific clause "the condition for the plus-signs is 'one round per day'." Whether A-rank power the whole time is better than twice the power of C-rank a few seconds per day is up to individual taste.

    And yes, Seika, in the end, it is arbitrary. I wanted something inspired by the Twelve Colors system, so I chose eleven ranks to allocate, Shoutoku himself being the twelfth. In other words, it has little to do with their quantitative power and everything to do with their order in the arbitrary list of ranks the sword uses.
    Last edited by Daneel Rush; July 30th, 2012 at 06:13 AM.

  18. #2618
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Rush View Post
    Well, first of all, Heishi Shourinken applies only to Parameters, in which so far I have yet to see a single minus sign.
    Leysritt's Strength/Shinji!Rider's Strength whilst using Monstrous Strength. (B-)
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    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Leysritt's Strength/Shinji!Rider's Strength whilst using Monstrous Strength. (B-)
    Too bad we have a tenuous at best, completely none at worst understanding of the - modifier.

    I brought it up on IRC once, and we found it hard to understand what exactly it signified. Strange, because there are many examples of it being used in Fate.

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    Oh, and I just looked up the Side Materials entry for Parameters. ++ without A necessarily being attached and even +++ have been canon since the very early days. (Rough translation of the comment on +++: "That damn thing's on a whole different level, out of this world.")
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