Create-A-Servant 2

[gyrowins]

Confusion

[MehKitteh]

I left this thread for approximately 1 day and literally 3 new people (that I've never heard of), 2 sheets, somebody sticking up to Koga's rather grating ignorance to the 'criticism' he asked, and 2 pages of thread appears.

[Historia]

Yeah, who the hell is MehKitteh.

[MehKitteh]

I know right.

[CritHit]

It just seems weird to me that these two labels bother you so much CritHit. Certainly the Alters aren't the most interesting characters ever, but that isn't directly connected to their status as an Alter. Saber and Jeanne Alter's faults come more from the need to appeal to gacha players (something you seem to accept), and Lancer Alter is terrible because she's a walking boob joke.
None of them are worst just by virtue of being altered versions of the originals, except for maybe Cu Alter, and I guess you could say a more tragic Emiya is just unnecessary.

In concept they're really not that different from Caster Gilles or Berserker Lancelot except for having (Alter) next to their names.

I think it's mostly how they're done. None of them do anything but screw up the lore.
-Cu and Jeane Alters: Being wished into being by freaking GRAILS. The whole point of the Holy Grails is that they weren't truly omnipotent. Holy Grails can't bring people back from the dead, but can make an entirely different version of another person? That seems to be a huge stretch to me.
-All the Rhongomyiad Alters: ARTHUR FUCKING USED THE SPEAR IN HIS LEGEND, THERE'S NO NEED FOR THERE TO BE A WHOLE OTHER FREAKING TINELINE DEDICATED TO THAT SPEAR. Seriously, just allow Arturia to be summoned as a Lancer as is. The whole thing was just an excuse for a guy to give his waifu boobs.
-EMIYA Alter: Meh

[RoydGolden]

I think it's mostly how they're done. None of them do anything but screw up the lore.
-Cu and Jeane Alters: Being wished into being by freaking GRAILS. The whole point of the Holy Grails is that they weren't truly omnipotent. Holy Grails can't bring people back from the dead, but can make an entirely different version of another person? That seems to be a huge stretch to me.

I can't speak for the rest of your critiques, but the Grail is responsible for summoning Heroic Spirits to begin with. Is it really so unbelievable it could distort them in some way too? This seems like somewhat arbitrary suspension of disbelief to me. Also it's odd that you only mention Cu and Jeanne here, and not Arturia, who also became an Alter through exposure to the Grail.

Also, was it ever stated in lore that for sure a Grail can't bring someone back from the dead? I know the Grails we got in GO couldn't save Mashu, but I figured that was because of the unique nature of her predetermined lifespan (so saving her wasn't just a matter of healing an injury, but rewriting her very existence), not a general fact that they can't revive the dead at all. The Holy Grail is supposed to be able to bring about miracles, so not being able to revive the dead (one of the most archetypal examples of a miracle) seems a little strange to me. But maybe there's just some lore I'm forgetting here.

[Der Ritter]

I feel like that's ignoring why they made a big deal of Rhongomyniad in the Camelot Singularity.

[MehKitteh]

I guess the /GO Alters are more of 'summoning distorted facets of the Heroic Spirit' thing, especially with something like EMIYA Alter and Jeanne Alter.

But then again, we all know what corrupted them; Capitalism.

[Der Ritter]

Also as an FYI, iirc Resurrection is basically impossible in the Nasuverse, and it's something that even True Magic can't do. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm off.

[RoydGolden]

Also as an FYI, iirc Resurrection is basically impossible in the Nasuverse, and it's something that even True Magic can't do. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm off.

Isn't Tamamo's NP at full goddess power supposedly capable of resurrecting the dead? And didn't Fou resurrect Mashu at the end of Salomon? Or are those different somehow?

[Der Ritter]

I'm not sure about the Eightfold Blessings, but it's likely that it's unique to it due to being a Divine Authority or something. In Fou's case, that was him using up all his power as a Beast to do the resurrection, something that while it works also renders Fou as just a normal animal with lessened cognitive ability. Again, someone correct me if I'm even a little off.

[Shiki-pon]

If I'm not mistaken, Mashu was resurrected because she died inside Ars Paulina, where death doesn't count or something to that effect, giving Fou enough leeway to bring her back.

[Der Ritter]

Regarding the Eightfold Blessings:

It is normally a divine treasure of the land of the dead that can even bring the deceased back to life, done by deploying boundaries that can isolate the principles active in the world of the dead, but the Servant form of Caster hasn't been granted the authority to use that much power.

Now mind you, I pulled this from the wiki, so take this with a grain of salt, and cite me if it's wrong.

[CritHit]

I can't speak for the rest of your critiques, but the Grail is responsible for summoning Heroic Spirits to begin with. Is it really so unbelievable it could distort them in some way too? This seems like somewhat arbitrary suspension of disbelief to me. Also it's odd that you only mention Cu and Jeanne here, and not Arturia, who also became an Alter through exposure to the Grail.

Also, was it ever stated in lore that for sure a Grail can't bring someone back from the dead? I know the Grails we got in GO couldn't save Mashu, but I figured that was because of the unique nature of her predetermined lifespan (so saving her wasn't just a matter of healing an injury, but rewriting her very existence), not a general fact that they can't revive the dead at all. The Holy Grail is supposed to be able to bring about miracles, so not being able to revive the dead (one of the most archetypal examples of a miracle) seems a little strange to me. But maybe there's just some lore I'm forgetting here.

Basically answering these in reverse. In HF, even the Third Magic couldn't have brought Shirou back from the dead, so Illya did the best thing she could, manifest Shirou's yet departed soul into a physical form so that it could be put into a new body. The Fifth Magic can "undo dsath" within a limited amount of time, but even for it, true resurrection is impossible.

Saber Alter is merely Arturia corrupted by Angra Manyu's influence, she didn't have her entire history altered. And to answer your very first question, to that degree, yes, yes it is.

[RoydGolden]

Basically answering these in reverse. In HF, even the Third Magic couldn't have brought Shirou back from the dead, so Illya did the best thing she could, manifest Shirou's yet departed soul into a physical form so that it could be put into a new body. The Fifth Magic can "undo dsath" within a limited amount of time, but even for it, true resurrection is impossible.

Saber Alter is merely Arturia corrupted by Angra Manyu's influence, she didn't have her entire history altered. And to answer your very first question, to that degree, yes, yes it is.

Thanks for explaining the resurrection stuff. I still don't agree with finding it unbelievable that the Grail can distort Servant containers (since it creates them in the first place) but I can see what you mean now.

[King of Padoru]

Freedom is good. This sheet, probably not.

“What’s this? Wanna fight? Fine, fine, just try not to lose your weapon or something, okay?”



Casual looks because anime dude with fitting armor is hard to find

Saber
Identity: Nynniaw map Beli Mawr
Also known as: Nennius of Britain
Height: 184 cm
Weight: 79 kg
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Attribute: Human
Origin: Britain
Armament: Sword and shield
Likes: Victory
Dislikes: Situations in which he can’t do anything to win
Talents: One versus one
Natural enemy: Gaius Julius Caesar

Parameters
Strength: B
Endurance: C
Agility: B
Luck: C+
Mana: D
NP: B

Background

Nynniaw of Britain is the mythical prince that appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth’s History of the Kings of Britain. Living during the 1st century BC, Nynniaw was the third son of Beli Mawr, and brother of Llud and Cassivellaunus, future kings of Britain. Not pretty much about his life is known, but the importance of his greatest feat is such that, a long time after his death, he’d become a symbol of independence for the British people.
By the time Nynniaw was alive, the Romans, leaded by Gaius Julius Caesar, attempted to invade the British islands. Together with his brother Cassivellaunus and his nephew Mandubracius, Nynniaw led the troops of Trinovantum and Durovernum, and faced Caesar in single combat. The prince received a wound in the head and was defeated, but managed to obtain the Roman general’s sword, which got stuck in his shield. Luckily for him, Nynniaw’s friends came to help him before he was dealt the final blow, and Caesar had to retreat.
After this encounter, Nynniaw became a force to be greatly feared in battle. With only one blow, any warrior would be killed or damaged to the point of not being possible to ever recover. No matter the kind of battle he engaged in, victory was assured to Nynniaw. But his luck came to an end fifteen days after the combat with Caesar, when he finally died of his head injury. He was buried in Durovernum, currently Canterbury, together with Caesar’s sword.
The fact of Nynniaw making Caesar lose his weapon made the Tudor consider him as a symbol of Britain’s independence, with the loss of the sword being a humiliation for the Romans that would later inspire rebellion in Gaul.

Personality

Having deprived the great Julius Caesar of his sword, a humiliating event that makes him hesitate about using it as a Servant, Nynniaw shows great confidence on his luck and has become a tad arrogant as a result. Believing victory is certain for him, he usually acts laid-back, advising his opponent to grasp firmly their weapons, lest they lose it in combat.
Nynniaw prefers to fight alone and avoid situations in which he must face multiple enemies at the same time. Even if his Master is a skilled magus that can provide him good support in battle, he’ll usually tell them to step back and just watch the fight. Outside the battlefield, he shows a quite good adaptation to the modern society, generally enjoying talking to young girls about the story of his scar to flirt a bit with them. A good Master for him would be one that leaves him be, both in combat and in everyday life.

Skills

Class skills

Magic Resistance D
Cancels Single-Action spells, same as an amulet to protect against magecraft. Even if he had faced magecraft during his life, Nynniaw would probably have this skill at a low rank because he doesn’t think he’ll need it.

Riding B
British warriors used to fight in chariots adapted to the rough terrain of the isles, giving Nynniaw a high rank of Riding. At this level, only Magical and Phantasmal Beasts like a Pegasus or a Griffon are impossible to handle.

Personal skills

Bravery B
A skill that negates mental interference, such as pressure, fascination and confusion, and provides a bonus in melee damage, but that would be useless under the Berserker class. Facing alone one of the most important rulers in history is a great feat of courage, deserving a high rank.

Battle Continuation C
Ability to continue fighting while in a grave condition. A high rank can allow to resist even while at the verge of death. In the case of Nynniaw, he received a wound in the head from Caesar that would kill him a few days later, but that didn’t stop him from keeping killing Romans.

Knight Tactics C
A battle methodology that allows to grasp the flow of battle and make the opponent commit a mistake even during disadvantageous situations in which one's strength isn't a match. Rather than for strengthening oneself, this skill exists to invite a check failure for the enemy. A momentary chance of victory is wagered thanks to the composed observation skills that conform this skill. Nynniaw obtains this skill for having made Julius Caesar get his sword stuck in his shield.

Noble Phantasm

Angau Coch

The death-colored sword

“So you want to see the true colors of death, huh?”
Type: Anti-Unit
Rank: B
Description:

A sword that has had all of its colors drowned in the red of blood, a weapon that allowed Nynniaw to slay uncountable Roman soldiers in the battlefield, as if he had earned the favor of a deity of victory. Originally wielded by Julius Caesar, after being obtained by Nynniaw, its effects have been changed a little.

According to the legend, anyone who received damage from this sword would either die or end in such a state that they could be considered dead as well, because recovery or treatment became impossible. Upon release of the True Name, Nynniaw performs a slash with all of his strength, although the damage is relatively low for a Noble Phantasm. The true worth resides on the series of Luck checks that are performed until one is failed. Each check succeeded by Nynniaw punishes the opponent with a damage equivalent to that of the first slash, severely injuring them.

This sword’s original name was no other than Crocea Mors, which was Caesar’s golden sword. After passing to Nynniaw’s hands, it’s been renamed as

Red Death

Angau Coch

to fit the origins of its new owner.

Relations

Gaius Julius Caesar: “Woah, he really let himself go… Was it so humiliating to lose his sword that he started eating like a pig?”

Boudica: “Hey, good timing, miss queen. I was starting to get hungry. Will you give me some galette?”

Arturia Pendragon: “Bwohoo, that’s a sword of victory! Wish I could shoot some beams with mine…”

Arthur Pendragon: “Hey hey, that beam is even bigger than the one from that girl! Is it a sword of victory or a sword of annihilation?!”

[Spartacus]

Say, anyone had done Duke of Wellington before?
Not for Contest if you worried about that, because I probably not entering this month.

[Shiki-pon]

Say, anyone had done Duke of Wellington before?
Not for Contest if you worried about that, because I probably not entering this month.

Well, I'm making him for that contest... I was surprised that there didn't seem to be any versions of him around.

[Spartacus]

Well, I'm making him for that contest... I was surprised that there didn't seem to be any versions of him around.

Oh, that's very nice! I'm looking forward to it.

[Kabalisto Koga]

Say, anyone had done Duke of Wellington before?
Not for Contest if you worried about that, because I probably not entering this month.

which contest ?