Thinking on this it's interesting how Arc can become Crimson Moon, while Gray was raised in Blackmore cemetery and was meant to become a copy of King Arthur, there's probably some thread linking it all even if the process for Gray is distinct because Morgan is involved in that one.Originally Posted by madarra
Haha, what ifFGO LB6 spoilers
but you cant summon heroic spirits in Tsuki worlds where CM is ressurecting.
so either CM can Rezz and Morgans version probably doesnt work? would it work? Or CM cant ress and its a Fate world and Morgan tries to ressurect King Arthur (and gets Waver`d)
i guess the Blackmore memorial graveyard could hold the info Morgan needs for this theory
Tsuki World Gray grew into a normal adult with nothing ever happening to her until 2014 when Saber is summoned into Melty and she becomes a Saberface at 25 years old
There are also worlds that are a bit of a hybrid between a distinctive Fate timeline and a distinctive Tsukihime timeline as well, namely: the world of Fate/Strange Fake and FGO. In other words, there are hybrid worlds where the Human Order is not stabilized enough to guarantee no Tsukihime elements but also not fucked up enough to guarantee the scale of Tsukihime shenanigans. That's how they had the comparison of DAAs and Divine Spirits in SF and the existence of TA in FGO, and Rasputin also found information about Ultimate One of the Oort Cloud from mecha Hephaestus' terminal.
It is possible that because some timelines are not pure Tsuki or Fate but hybrid like FGO, SF, the condition for Arc to be born was possible but due to the threat of the DAAs, the other TAs are small, Arc was not needed and she stays asleep forever in her castle in Avalon.
It is possible and is something available for high ranking divine spirits i.e Amaterasu, Tiamat and high rank Clairvoyance users. It can also be an effect similar to Independent Manifestation of the Beasts as Void Shiki and Merlin also have it. Tiamat was able to observe Beast VI in another timeline and send an Alter Ego of herself to that timeline to help fighting it for example, and was the only Beast who did not actually die when defeated, rather she got sealed back again and all events involving her emergence got removed. If Arc has Independent Manifestation, I can see that her case would be either similar to Tiamat - a cornerstone of history of the planet that has to exist in all timelines but her awakening depends on special circumstances, or similar to Kiara where Arc as a TA exist in all timelines but their role differ from the other, even if they all have capabilities to become the Brain. Another possibility is that it's not Arc but Altrouge who became the Brain in Fate worlds taking Arc's position and that was why Primate Murder is now in Merlin's care instead.Maybe the brain of the planet is outside the timeline axis and can observe all parallel worlds simultaneously. Didn't AE also straight up jumped from MB to the Extra verse in the MBBAAN manga?
Last edited by Lily Emilio; September 3rd, 2022 at 11:58 PM.
Hmm, it's weird because in Ciel's route it states Arc's soul is stored in the inner sea and leaks to the surface if her body is destroyed. And the inner sea itself seems to be in the 6th dimension and I'm not sure what kind of physics even run in there.Maybe it has something to do with having an ego or not. It's possible Arcueid technically exists in all worlds, that soul in the inner sea is her but the difference is whether the TAs managed to find a way to give her an ego or not.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
The inner sea is Avalon. We went there in LB6 and it doesn't have any huge differences from outside other than the rule of "evil cannot be there" and the environment is still Age of Gods. The inner sea seems to function similarly to the gap of the Textures (Wandering Sea location), the Realm of the Gods and the Realm of the Xians, and the Imaginary Number Dimension (Tiamat's prison cell) are places cut off from the surface Texture you can't get to via normal means, but not impossible to reach. There are multiple versions of these places in different timelines, like Prototype's Avalon having Proto Merlin and other Fate timelines' Avalon has Merlin. But since the place is huge, the part where Merlin is in is not the same as the part Fafnir Sieg got to or where Arc is anyways. It is possible to damage the planet's soul through drastic means like the state of Extra after Overcount 1999 where it is said that the planet's soul is hurt.
It is easier to understand via how she is classified as with the term: A-ray (yes, the same 亜麗 in Notes tho quite different in how they are created compare to Notes, also called A-rei in LB6). Going by this description, A-rays are greater fairies who are basically bunreis of the planet's soul. Bunrei (divided spirit) is usually a term used to describe a clone of a god's soul that by all intent and purpose are supposed to be that god but not THE original god themselves and can derive further from their roots (think Tamamo, who is pretty much an Alter Ego of Amaterasu). The A-reis are similar to gods in that they are manifestations of nature itself, but they are not covered in the rules of humans (which explains why they are used to model the TAs, and TAs who get involved with humans began to become more human). in Arc's case, she is the highest quality bunrei.Maybe it has something to do with having an ego or not. It's possible Arcueid technically exists in all worlds, that soul in the inner sea is her but the difference is whether the TAs managed to find a way to give her an ego or not.
In addition, you can look at CHALDEAS. CHALDEAS is a mystic code that functions base on a copy of the planet's soul. You cannot copy the entire planet as an existence, but you can copy its soul and work on it because it is data. It is basically an encrypted file that currently humans cannot decrypt its contents beyond the surface. Arc is basically a host for such a file created by the planet. So I don't think it's "Arc's soul is in the inner sea", but rather "Arc's soul is a copy of the planet's soul" and if you destroy her in the wrong way, it causes a data leak due to the 2-way connection between both hers and the planet's soul inside the inner sea, like how the Moon Cell affecting the Throne of Heroes, Moon Sefar got knocked out when Earth Sefar got blasted, due to their tight connections.
I see, that does seem like a good explanation.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
What would you say are the chances Roa's great plan is something pure and he just wants to heal Arc's vampiric impulses?
He is depicted as a more sympathetic character, more so than in OG and since Shiki shared his knowledge and memories for a bit he would have probably hated him had his plan been something particularly terrible. He felt more sympathy and compassion for him than anything.
I think what we see in his Lumina/MBAA ending might be the end result of his plan but skipping all the process and details.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Doesn't sound like Roa. Even in the remake, he only does things for his own benefit. His nicer side always comes out in the form of being very receptive to others also benefitting from his actions. In creating the Burial Agency, he gave a safe space to all shunned freaks loyal to the church's cause, but the intention was just to get a safe space for himself and benefitting others was a bonus.
And the implied Pantheon plan, at least in how I interpret it, would see Roa making a hole in the firmament to continue his eternal journey in the cosmos beyond. Instead of tearing down the firmament and involuntarily exposing Earth to the truth of the cosmos, he wants to leave a hole open for his escape, and for the escape of anyone likewise interested in exploring the universe. This mirrors the Burial Agency situation. Roa is doing things for himself, but in a way that welcomes anyone trying to do the same. And he got 6 Ancestors contributing to his demo in France, he might be pushing a method beneficial to the Crimson Moon plan as well.
And then his partnership with Shiki in Ciel route is because the first run-in with Shiki made Arcueid lose her perfection, so Roa wasn't invested in her anymore. He always plays for his own benefit, but in this situation, where he has no horse in this race, he has no qualms about helping out a host body with their own causes. See also how he first let SHIKI stab Shiki in Arc's route before taking over to do his thing. Roa is a straight up bro when it comes to things he doesn't care about, I'll give you that, but Arcueid's situation couldn't be further from that.
This is an interesting point.
"Is the place Shiki cut all right? I heard Shiki cut you around the heart area, near the main artery... I would assume it was in your bicuspid valve."
She says an amazing thing with a normal tone. I let out a smile as a testament to her weirdness.
"What a strange person. I wouldn't be able to talk to you like this if my heart had been cut."
"Of course. That was just for confirmation."
I see. With that question she confirmed if I was the woman stabbed by that person who I couldn't classify as Japanese-styled or Western-styled.
"But the effect will come in time, Shiki's eyes are strong. Even if that thing was your second existence, the destruction will reach you in time. I wanted to ask you a few things before that... which is why I came here."
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
??? So that means his MBAA/Lumina ending is a failed attempt at achieving his goal?
He should be exploring stuff like intergalactic traveling then. That seems like something that would be easier to achieve with technology than magic. Is earth blocking any sort of attempt to leave earth? Because that would be huge, but Tsukihime earth doesn't seem all that different from real world earth on a surface level.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
well, the firmament is the Moon, so the fact that we dont have humans space traveling past the moon would hint at that. All we have is Mars rovers , Venus suicide probes and Voyager maybe hinting at Type Jupiter in the heart of Jupiters big red spot
There is a bunch of interesting projects in NASA occurring soon actually.
One project is to see if they can redirect meteors, planning to reidirect a 60 meter thing i believe that orbits around a larger meteor
I believe the comparison is that SF was both while GO was neither. Though go feels more like a Fate based setting that got twisted going by the presentation. I also agree it's possible there is some multi world/over world connection thing given her nature. Honestly too much unknowns to say for certain since even if the general idea I laid out ends up being close, you could just mix the settings in the end in a specific showing and invalidate every mechanism. Which begs the question, what the heck would mushroom even be thinking at that point.
To digress for a second. This is fairly true since you can just look at the unique case of Arc and the knife or Yu but I think the setting mats are saying that rather than interacting with humans being a prerequisite trigger, TA are naturally more like humans by default since they are an incarnated species and thus have lost their objectivity. As they're not simply a tool of the planet but individual life-forms, like any other species living on the planet, they possess their own self-interests and desires. Especially these bloodsuckers, given their inborn flaw. End result being that depending on the individual, it's possible to become independent of the world like humans and animals have despite their origin. I don't really think it's a matter of literally coming to possess the same perceptions and understandings though.TAs who get involved with humans began to become more human
I agree with this whole thing. Even Roa helping Shiki in the end is mostly because Shiki hit his weak point with his words and he otherwise would have let her annihilate herself.
I think it's got a more magical and supernatural flair going on here when you mention the firmament and cosmos. Please wait until True Arc to understand. Stay alive for another 5+ years. Anyway... it's all probably connected to the egg and to Archetype as the soul of the planet that we don't fully understand here. When Shiki finished making with the egg and woke her up, it looked like it just imploded to me which might indicate it returning to the interior? Also when she went full luminary they mentioned how the sky had been closed off when it was all red.
Also Roa's MBTL story is basically lifted off his old story where he's just salty Arc is changed. He simply got fucked but also got what he want when she awakened.
Last edited by Nanaya; September 4th, 2022 at 02:11 PM.
I feel it just raises more questions than it gives answers but we've already been waiting for 13 years, what's another 5.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Well, Roa's plot is entirely new.
Either way, he spills the most details about it in one of the Ciel Bad Ends, as well as Aoko's MBTL story.
I felt for Roa in Aoko's story. Fucking Magicians.
Interstellar travel requires an insane amount of resources, like magic energy. LB Zeus tried to leave Earth by using the vast magic energy inside the LB tree, which contains a galaxy within and the amount of energy similar to Goetia's incineration. It was also said that mankind is still hundreds of years away from reaching the level of Tiamat who is described as the "Ark of God" capable of interstellar travel. So the problem is about technology and energy required, not that the planet stopping anyone from doing so. So let's say if Roa wants to pursue the lengthy technology route, he would have to be immortal in the first place.
Why does Roa say Shiki's the only one with the means to kill him when Ciel is literally right there with reincarnation denial.
And that's where the celestial egg comes in as far as this theory goes? I guess that would make sense.
- - - Updated - - -
This gives me hope for an Arc True that might eclipse the wackiness of Ciel True.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
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