[FGO JP Main Chapter] Lostbelt 7: Nahui Mictlan ~ The One Who Rules the Planet

[VTKajin]

BB could probably always have done something like that anyway.

[Link0306]

Did he hack into the Throne? Thought he just kinda copied the system, not touching the original

[OnesFleetingGlory]

There's Trismegistus II's warning before it happened.

[TomPen94]

It's hard to think that ORT hacking into the Throne didn't cause some changes into its system. Restrictions like "Only seven regular Classes can have Grand designation" may no longer be a thing.

They were probably cursing themselves for introducing that restriction. I can only imagine the round of pats on the back now that all bets are off for it.

[Formless Creature]

ORTussy is acceptable in any gender or physical form.

Spoiler:

Fujimaru confirmed for having the Tohno gland

- - - Updated - - -

It's hard to think that ORT hacking into the Throne didn't cause some changes into its system. Restrictions like "Only seven regular Classes can have Grand designation" may no longer be a thing.

*fanfare* New Part 3 Plot Point Unlocked!

[VTKajin]

Did he hack into the Throne? Thought he just kinda copied the system, not touching the original

Simulating a timeline to put himself in the throne is one thing, summoning himself as a Grand is another.

[Exhaunted]

I wonder what kind of timeline was simulated for ORT to be a viable summon? Sounds like things really got off the rails there.

[Link0306]

Timeline where ORT was Superman

[idpersona]

Btw why is ORT without the spider gold?

[Altima of the Gates]

True Ancestors are incarnated Elementals. Tsukihime Arc doesn't have a Saint Graph because she has a physical, flesh and blood body. Everything still fits.

So a container that houses something vs. something without a container? And its just that they've decided upon terminology to differentiate the two things beyond just saying container and incarnated being?

Didn't Arc's remake profile literally have Class skills? So...

I'm just waiting for the day Nasu beleives his universe to be truly complete and we get an RPG spanning everything. EVERYTHING.
Now whether I die first, or he does before its done, who knows.

[Stoker]

Timeline where ORT was Superman

Wrong. ORT gamera. Friend to children everywhere. He will jump down in-between children and creatures that want to eat children.

[Link0306]

There we go

[Maedhros]

Timeline where ORT was Superman

Think I read a web novel that went like that once.

[Rafflesiac]

If Tepeu is Dino Tohno, then is Wak Chan Dino Arihiko?

[fumei]

I think we've gone over this before but what's the difference between a Spirit Origin and Saint Graph again? Until recently I thought they were the same thing and Saint Graph was just the ruby text.

The short implication as I see it is that every spiritual/magical being has a 霊基 (NA: "Spirit Origin", lit. "Spiritual Foundation"), while "Saint Graph" is a Servant term. Perhaps even the writing might conflate the two, just as it does Servant and Heroic Spirit, but that's how I see it most of the time.

But regardless, let me try to compile some stuff.

As far as out-of-story stuff (?) is concerned, Saint Graph always refers to the Servant's card. So on that website Rockxas indirectly cited it says:

サーヴァントが宿るカードを「セイントグラフ」と呼びます。
Cards which hold Servants within them are called Saint Graphs.

So like, you'd infer that with the 霊基一覧 ('Spirit Origin List', I think it is in NA?) being a collection of these cards, that 霊基 = Saint Graph.
This sort of makes sense given that early in F/GO's story, Andersen quite literally equates the 霊基 ('Spirit Origin') with the class of the Servant. You then look at the back of the card, and lo and behold, there's an image of the corresponding class there.

What sort of muddles the water is 霊基グラフ ('Spirit Origin Graph'?), which is introduced in Part 2, and seems to equate to the contents of the briefcase with all your Servants or whatever. Basically a collection of all your 'Spirit Origins'. Then of course, there's the question of why everything and their mom suddenly has them in F/GO. But hey, I mean somehow everything has also been given classes, so maybe this is just how F/GO works. If you have a class, you have a card, therefore 'Spirit Origin'?

There are 霊基, 霊基グラフ,

セイントグラフ

地下大聖杯

,

セイントグラフ進化

霊基再臨

. In a lot of cases when 霊基 or 霊基グラフ, it is to refer to servants summoned by Chaldea (like Kirschtaria said it is a Chaldea thing). However it is also used for entities not even servants, in which, to my understanding, 霊基 should be understood more like literally "spirit origin" or spiritual foundation/base of an entity than a servant. The wild variety of usages make it quite hard to say for sure in which situation it is being used to talk about servant saint graph or just spirit frame in general that many entities have. Such as in the case of Arcueid profile since the context is comparing her as a servant to her as not a servant, the 霊基 there can be understood as servant saint graph. But because it is already used to talk about other beings having nothing to do with servants or ether bodies, you can also say that well maybe it's about 霊基 in general.

Solomon
貴様がいま口にした通りだよ。
It is as you say.
英霊としての格ではない。

クラス

霊基

の格が違うのだ。
It is not our ranks as Heroic Spirits that separate us, it is our

Class

Spiritual Foundation

.

(I think that one is less "霊基 means Class actually" though and more "in this context it is the same").

And then you have this "how to play" site which is long since gone, which incessantly keeps repeating that the cards which house Servants in FGO are called Saint Graphs (セイントグラフ).

"The cards in which Servants reside are called Saint Graphs. Servants who join you are shown as Saint Graphs. There are several ways to improve Servants (Saint Graphs)". You see the gist here. This keeps going, saying again "card = saint graph".

So if you wanted to take all this into account and be really technical, Saint Graph should be a FGO/Chaldea-specific thing to reference Servants, and presumably only those summoned by Chaldea or with the Chaldea system. Spirit Origin/Spiritual Foundation is a catch-all term for spiritual/magical beings' composition which practically all of them have. In that sense, when the text uses 霊基 for Chaldea-related Servants it would not be amiss to use "Saint Graph", but when used for non-Chaldea ones, it seems like it's technically wrong. At this point though, the terms are so interchangable and I doubt it matters as long as you keep track of the actual differentiation if it ever needs to come up, like in some powerlevel discussion or something.

[Link0306]

Yeah, pretty sure they came up with the term "Saint Graph" as a fancy way to refer to cards, instead of just calling them cards like other gacha games.

Also this reminds me of another question about LB7 - For the 4 Servants Chaldea summoned at the start, they used the briefcase as a catalyst to summon Servants from the Throne, right? Not directly using the saved Saint Graphs in the briefcase?

[Petrikow]

Honestly, I just see it as the literal container for the "being" housed within. It's their "interface" with the outside world. This is also why Servants talk about their swimsuit forms as different Saint Graphs. Obviously it would be, since they've changed Class, and all. But this has more of an effect than just that, since it brings out other sides to them. Depending on the Saint Graph it inhabits, the traits exhibited by the Servant is different.

Incidentally this is also what Solomon (Goetia in disguise) is talking about. The rank of his Class, aka Saint Graph, is different because he's a Grand Servant. The container itself is the difference, not the Heroic Spirit within. All cases of things that aren't summoned having Saint Graphs still probably follow this basic principle. It's an interface for the being within to interact with the world.

[Blastedspider]

Isn't what they used to call "spiritual vessel/container" back in the day?

[Gelious]

Yay, we finally have a name to what bad guys actually want to do. "Human Order Compilation" Now all is left is for them to explain what the hell that is.

[Mercedes4321]

It's hard to think that ORT hacking into the Throne didn't cause some changes into its system. Restrictions like "Only seven regular Classes can have Grand designation" may no longer be a thing.

Even if it didn't directly have that effect, we already know that the whole servant system was a copy and paste job taken from the Beasts. Them also stealing ORT's idea of Grand Extra classes is just the next step in the universe's most blatant case of plagiarism.