Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Mcjon01]

Aren't ABQ chains the worst to charge NP with?

Not for Okita, probably.

[Canon]

IIRC only Okita, Orion, Jack and X charge best with their Quicks.

Everyone else is Arts.

[mewarmo990]

those 4-5 hit Quicks.

except Gil, poor Gil.

[Canon]

NP2 and above, any of those gold Berserkers can clear any wave. I mean I'm still using Kiyohime (with a Lv50 Kaleido but still)

[manafusion]

Not for Okita, probably.

Sorry for not specifying the context in that single sentence. I was meaning about the Berserkers being mentioned in my quote.

those 4-5 hit Quicks.

except Gil, poor Gil.

Any Servant with more than double the hits on their Quick than their Arts generally benefit more from having a A-blank-Q chain instead.


Assume Arts is a 2-hit attack:
3rd Arts, no first card bonus: 12x NP charge.
3rd Arts, with first card bonus: 14x NP charge.

3rd Quick, 2 hits with first card bonus: 6x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 3 hits with first card bonus: 9x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 4 hits with first card bonus: 12x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 5 hits with first card bonus: 15x NP charge.



So, based on the above values, we can safely say a few things. Gilgamesh still benefits more from a BQA chain (42.5x) than a ABQ chain (40x). Any Servant with 1 Quick and 1 Arts generally benefit more from a BQA chain unless their Quick has more than twice the attack count than their Arts.

[Canon]

those 4-5 hit Quicks.

except Gil, poor Gil.

They can give him an おのれ passive buff that increases number of hits the longer he's in a fight, representing his decreasing 慢心

[mewarmo990]

They can give him an おのれ passive buff that increases number of hits the longer he's in a fight, representing his decreasing 慢心

and an active that changes his next turn attack to target enemy class weakness. It's lore, man.

雑種（剣）！雑種（槍）！雑種（弓）！：EX

[Trubo]

Aren't ABQ chains the worst to charge NP with? I always thought BQA is the best, mostly because of attacks from Lancelot are B-1, Q-2, A-2 so it's better to do it that way.



EDIT:
Lancelot NP charge
BQA chain - 9% (0 + 1.5 + 6 + 1.5) NP charge if enemy doesn't die.
ABQ chain - 8% (3 + 0.5 + 3 + 1.5) NP charge if enemy doesn't die.

No, because you didn't factor the Arts Card First Card bonus properly. ABQ and BQA generate 10.5% and 9% NP Charge for Lancelot, respectively.

- - - Updated - - -

IIRC only Okita, Orion, Jack and X charge best with their Quicks.

Everyone else is Arts.

You're still better off using an Arts card first if you want NP Charge because of the Arts Card First Card bonus.

[hinode]

Sorry for not specifying the context in that single sentence. I was meaning about the Berserkers being mentioned in my quote.




Any Servant with more than double the hits on their Quick than their Arts generally benefit more from having a A-blank-Q chain instead.


Assume Arts is a 2-hit attack:
3rd Arts, no first card bonus: 12x NP charge.
3rd Arts, with first card bonus: 14x NP charge.

3rd Quick, 2 hits with first card bonus: 6x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 3 hits with first card bonus: 9x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 4 hits with first card bonus: 12x NP charge.
3rd Quick, 5 hits with first card bonus: 15x NP charge.



So, based on the above values, we can safely say a few things. Gilgamesh still benefits more from a BQA chain (42.5x) than a ABQ chain (40x). Any Servant with 1 Quick and 1 Arts generally benefit more from a BQA chain unless their Quick has more than twice the attack count than their Arts.

The other thing to consider is how much a servant's EX attack is worth in terms of NP generation. Kiyo gets more NP out of ABQ than BQA because she has 2.03x3 on her extra, plus 2.03x2 on her Quick. This is true for a bunch of other servants with Caster animations, but it's most significant with Kiyo since she only has one Art card and one Quick card.

[Trubo]

And if anyone wants to calculate a Servant's NP charge rate, I made a table awhile ago but here's the link again. Has most of the possible Brave Chains, and has been cleaned up so that all you need to do is change the numHits and baseRate values.

******************#!Ms8lVaIQ!FMM3HaB0i...fUGj8m8fzirIlw

[Kyte]

Due to first card bonus an ABQ brave chain is always better.
A1 = 3 + 1
B2 = 0 + 1
Q3 = 2 + 1
E = 1 + 1
= 10 total relative charge

B = 0
Q = 1.5
A = 6
E = 1
= 8.5 total relative charge

In the most standard configuration, with 1 hit on Busters, 2 hits on Quicks and Arts and 3 on Extra, that's:
ABQE = 2 hits * 4x + 1 hit * 1x + 2 hits * 3x + 3 hits * 2x = 21 times charge rate
BQAE = 1 hit * 1x + 2 hits * 1.5x + 2 hints * 6x + 3 hits * 1x = 19 times charge rate
This is why making Quicks hit twice in caster animations was such a significant boost to charge rate.
Also, the more hits a Quick has relative to Arts, the greater the difference.

[Zork Knight]

Imagine if they made a 5* NP Charge Rate Up CE
Carmilla using Phantom Maiden every other turn.

[Satehi]

Imagine if they made a 5* NP Charge Rate Up CE
Carmilla using Phantom Maiden every other turn.

Unless you're running solo and can't charge 84% in two brave chain turns + tanking all attacks that's basically a shittier Prisma Cosmos.

[Trubo]

A 4* CE that I'd really like to see would be one that refunds you half the Crit stars, rounded down, that weren't consumed in the current round. What I mean by that can be better illustrated by the following example:

1. The player has 20 Crit stars
2. Upon pressing the Attack button, they cluster such that 9 appear on one card, 5 on a second, and 2 each on the remaining cards.
3. The player selects the 9, 5, and one of the 2 star cards.
4. The 9 star card crits, the rest don't.
5. At the end of the turn, the player gets floor(11/2)=5 crit stars back, in addition to whatever was normally earned that turn.

[GDB]

A 4* CE that I'd really like to see would be one that refunds you half the Crit stars, rounded down, that weren't consumed in the current round. What I mean by that can be better illustrated by the following example:

1. The player has 20 Crit stars
2. Upon pressing the Attack button, they cluster such that 9 appear on one card, 5 on a second, and 2 each on the remaining cards.
3. The player selects the 9, 5, and one of the 2 star cards.
4. The 9 star card crits, the rest don't.
5. At the end of the turn, the player gets floor(11/2)=5 crit stars back, in addition to whatever was normally earned that turn.

I feel like Fragments of 2030 would be better the majority of the time, since you'd have to be "not using" at least 18 stars every turn to get a better benefit.

[Trubo]

2030 is a 5*, what I proposed would be a 4*. It's fine if a 5* is stronger than a 4*.

[Mcjon01]

Then they'll make a 5* CE that refunds all unconsumed crit stars just to make you feel bad about having the 4* version.

[Yuuki]

is that kiyohime real or fan made?2.jpg

[You]

it's real. You're looking at a picture of it so it must be real.

[Mcjon01]

I don't think that even merits a response.