A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[TomPen94]

I hold no love for the predatory nature of gacha, but this just seems like a condescending way to gatekeep.

Again the friction has nothing to do with the fact it's a gacha. It being a gacha is just ammunition.
Fate has had some "normie invasion" events before, but none of them even compare remotely to what FGO brought along, IIRC in one year it became the entry point for most fans of the franchise. That dwarfs anything any anime managed to do previously.

That influx will invariably change the discourse of the fandom in general, some ppl will miss the way it was before.
That influx will invariably change the company's attitude regarding its products, some ppl will not take kindly to the course correction. And they might hold a grduge because of it.

FGO's enormous success was initially a surprise to everyone involved. But from then on it took over everything in the franchise. If you were waiting for something not related to FGO, or Fate spinoff anime #40678, I think it's very understandable you get a chip on your shoulder when that's literally everything that's been coming out for the last 6 or so years.

None of this has anything to do with it being a gacha. It's all about how it took over the entirety of TM by storm and making it laser-focused on appeasing FGO fans only. The fact that it is a gacha might add fuel to the fire, as it certainly did for me, but the source is this feeling of being left out, of being unheard, when we were here first.

[Hermitfold]

Again the friction has nothing to do with the fact it's a gacha. It being a gacha is just ammunition.
Fate has had some "normie invasion" events before, but none of them even compare remotely to what FGO brought along, IIRC in one year it became the entry point for most fans of the franchise. That dwarfs anything any anime managed to do previously.

That influx will invariably change the discourse of the fandom in general, some ppl will miss the way it was before.
That influx will invariably change the company's attitude regarding its products, some ppl will not take kindly to the course correction. And they might hold a grduge because of it.

FGO's enormous success was initially a surprise to everyone involved. But from then on it took over everything in the franchise. If you were waiting for something not related to FGO, or Fate spinoff anime #40678, I think it's very understandable you get a chip on your shoulder when that's literally everything that's been coming out for the last 6 or so years.

None of this has anything to do with it being a gacha. It's all about how it took over the entirety of TM by storm and making it laser-focused on appeasing FGO fans only. The fact that it is a gacha might add fuel to the fire, as it certainly did for me, but the source is this feeling of being left out, of being unheard, when we were here first.

This is an entirely fair way to feel, but that's an issue to do with Type-Moon's management, not something to hold over the heads of new fans.

[TomPen94]

This is an entirely fair way to feel, but that's an issue to do with Type-Moon's management, not something to hold over the heads of new fans.

Jealousy will do that to you.

[Crown]

Wouldn't have a problem with FGO had it just stayed as a spin-off story in a mobile game format. It overstayed its welcome the moment Nasu started adding lore to connect with other works and treat it more seriously in spite of being a cash-grab at heart. I think there's a good handful of people that while excited about the remake they are also upset about it inevitably having ties with FGO one way or another, same for future TM works.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

This is an entirely fair way to feel, but that's an issue to do with Type-Moon's management, not something to hold over the heads of new fans.

Kind of what I've been trying to point out. Also, to me, the flaws of FGO have everything to do with it's nature as a mobage, which has everything to do with TM's desire to make money in a capitalist system. Moreover, the normie invasion is mostly hated because older fans feel TM is aggressively pandering to them by going all in on FGO and Fate as a whole, and a good deal of that has to do with the people up top deciding that that's the most profitable course of action. It's not all bad, but the obvious profit motive and some of the shit done in it's name do sting.

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Wouldn't have a problem with FGO had it just stayed as a spin-off story in a mobile game format. It overstayed its welcome the moment Nasu started adding lore to connect with other works and treat it more seriously in spite of being a cash-grab at heart. I think there's a good handful of people that while excited about the remake they are also upset about it inevitably having ties with FGO one way or another, same for future TM works.

Unpopular opinion here maybe, but I actually like how FGO has been used as a vehicle to tie various pieces of lore together and explore aspects of TM life that we knew were there, but hadn't been explored. A lot of it is still rather interesting to me. That being said, FGO's format is far from ideal for doing this correctly.

[TomPen94]

Wouldn't have a problem with FGO had it just stayed as a spin-off story in a mobile game format. It overstayed its welcome the moment Nasu started adding lore to connect with other works and treat it more seriously in spite of being a cash-grab at heart. I think there's a good handful of people that while excited about the remake they are also upset about it inevitably having ties with FGO one way or another, same for future TM works.

[Seres]

Old Nasu fully died by the time of CCC. Even new Tsukihime's mood is gonna be radically different than what old fans want if he really fully rewrote it based on his current feelings and worldview. Even if TsukiR manages to preserve the soul of the original any new sequels or IPs will be more in tune with what Nasu wrote in the last few years.

There's pretty much no point in following Nasu seeking more of the old stuff anymore. Old fans should stop agonizing themselves over it and fully drop TM instead of hanging around with huge melancholy and a faint hope for something that's never gonna happen.

[Crown]

It's okay, at least there's still Narita and Sanda.
For now.

[R.Lock]

I thought we had an agreement to keep Dullahan out of FGO-related discussions because neither he nor the opposing side can hold an argument in good faith or even respect one another.

Doom and gloom about, ah, *opens notes* new Nasu should really be kept to oneself until we get a reliable idea of how remake turned out to be. Especially, since we know that Nasu dedicated himself to the remake enough to temporarily relieve himself of any FGO duties that didn't require him to write directly.

[Byegod]

Just ignore dullahan, he will eventually be sucked into a blackhole of his own pretentiousness within a few years anyway.

But here is my controversial take, my problems with TM arent even due to FGO as much as all the problems stacking up in this time period, a lot of the problems can be traced to far earlier on, KnK is hard to sit through outside of movies 5, 7 for me due to how pretentious it can get at times, Nasu has always had a degree of describing things in game terms or dodging lore/questions, its just now we have entire lorebooks that make these issues far more obvious by profiles that tell us nothing or just show pure favoritism.

I think a bigger issue is him wanting all the otaku money AND wanting to be a pretentious person at the same time, so we get this half baked ideas and passive aggressiveness back and forth in his writing, plus he and takuechi are lazy and dont actually do decent supervision.

[Herod]

Sanda

At last, some new and fresh material that can really reinvigorate this franchise.

[Dullahan]

I am posting entirely in good faith.

[Rafflesiac]

Just ignore dullahan, he will eventually be sucked into a blackhole of his own pretentiousness within a few years anyway.

But here is my controversial take, my problems with TM arent even due to FGO as much as all the problems stacking up in this time period, a lot of the problems can be traced to far earlier on, KnK is hard to sit through outside of movies 5, 7 for me due to how pretentious it can get at times, Nasu has always had a degree of describing things in game terms or dodging lore/questions, its just now we have entire lorebooks that make these issues far more obvious by profiles that tell us nothing or just show pure favoritism.

I think a bigger issue is him wanting all the otaku money AND wanting to be a pretentious person at the same time, so we get this half baked ideas and passive aggressiveness back and forth in his writing, plus he and takuechi are lazy and dont actually do decent supervision.

What is genuine anime?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I am posting entirely in good faith.

True, it's just that you hit at the wrong group of people when diagnosing the problem, and generally talk down to most other fans who don't vomit philosophy the way you do.

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Actually, that's textbook bad faith.

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Just ignore dullahan, he will eventually be sucked into a blackhole of his own pretentiousness within a few years anyway.

He won't. Dullahan will never die.

[fumei]

I find it funny the rag on Dullahan this time when he more or less was just saying that you shouldn't just shallowly hate on something (FGO) but think long and hard about why you think it's bad and you don't like it, and it wasn't really until he posted that we got actual posts doing just that, whereas the pages before were more or less just "FGO bad LOL", as per usual.

Either way, why does this topic always have to be so melodramatic? After years and years in a franchise you've grown tired of it because you don't like the direction of it. Fine, that's great for you that you're able to realize that and not be stuck in some prison of sunk cost fallacy. But "saying goodbye" and people always making like formal "I'm leaving the community" posts as if it's some official club, or as if Nasu is watching, now intent on changing his ways, is just so melodramatic for no benefit. Can't people just walk away from things they don't like anymore (I know the answer, yes, it's a rhetorical question)?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

FGO bad because capitalism is a solid take. Also, I feel so long as your reasons for disliking FGO don't have anything to do with any abhorrent right-wing beliefs, I don't care.

[fumei]

You can't just go and say that your own take is solid, that's not how it works. You can't just try to score points like that.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

True, but I also was responding to the indirect diss of my take.

[Nanaya]

Wouldn't have a problem with FGO had it just stayed as a spin-off story in a mobile game format. It overstayed its welcome the moment Nasu started adding lore to connect with other works and treat it more seriously in spite of being a cash-grab at heart. I think there's a good handful of people that while excited about the remake they are also upset about it inevitably having ties with FGO one way or another, same for future TM works.

This hits it on the head for me. I'm no fan of the gacha model and take issues with it but my big gripe is the shitty format being used as a vehicle to convey content that deserves better. I mean a lot of it probably doesn't deserve better given how wack some of the lore is in FGO but some of the more overarching themes could do to be better explored in a different project. The blatant waifu-baiting is also kinda cringe but whatever. I definitely don't like the idea of every future work being whored out for FGO content patches or it being where they just off-handedly add shit to the TM system.

That said, hopefully the next decade will be more than just Fate milking. In the meantime I'll just enjoy that I'll be playing Melty Blood instead of Fate FighterZ in a month.

[Hermitfold]

Either way, why does this topic always have to be so melodramatic? After years and years in a franchise you've grown tired of it because you don't like the direction of it. Fine, that's great for you that you're able to realize that and not be stuck in some prison of sunk cost fallacy. But "saying goodbye" and people always making like formal "I'm leaving the community" posts as if it's some official club, or as if Nasu is watching, now intent on changing his ways, is just so melodramatic for no benefit. Can't people just walk away from things they don't like anymore (I know the answer, yes, it's a rhetorical question)?

Amen. When I stop liking things, I...just don't post about them anymore. Some folks just want to see the world burn, I guess.