Unpopular TM opinions you have

[AAM1232]

Uhhhh... what?

You are the one waving the text like it was the commandment. I just told you that you read it wrong. I've read the whole block of text, it's neither here nor there.

You didn't say shit. You just claimed it was wrong because "grammar", and wiped away the supporting explanation I provided because "grammar". Apparently "grammar" is enough to ignore internal consistency in the sentence I guess.

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Didn't Nasu already break his own recency/well-documented rule as early as EXTRA with Li Shuwen, and later again in CCC with Andersen

And, well, Nursery Rhyme is pretty out there compared to what had come before

I mean Extra isn't FSN so apparently it doesn't matter.

But more seriously, Li and Hans aren't a lot of Servants like in GO. Even before them Urobuchi was using Gilles de Rais who was well-documented, while Apoc has Jeanne and Amakusa.

[Bookworm Luke]

You didn't say shit. You just claimed it was wrong because "grammar", and wiped away the supporting explanation I provided because "grammar". Apparently "grammar" is enough to ignore internal consistency in the sentence I guess.

No...

You are the one with the moving goal post.

First it's the sentence fragment highlighted in red.

Then you realized it's not what you think it is, now it's ”but context!"

I mean, it's not like I can't read it. I've read both the English and the Japanese.

And fuck you too. One curse word begets another. Tit for tat.

[the god of world-0]

Honestly, I just see the "no modern servants" rule as a more enduring version of the "only Hassans" rule. It works on the confined story of FSN, but it's needlessly limiting. So it needs to be discarded to the franchise to move forward.

[AAM1232]

No...

You are the one with the moving goal post.

First it's the sentence fragment highlighted in red.

Then you realized it's not what you think it is, now it's ”but context!"

I mean, it's not like I can't read it. I've read both the English and the Japanese.

And fuck you too. One curse word begets another. Tit for tat.

What goalposts have I moved? You're the one telling me the first part of the sentence is irrelevant as well as the context for your view that FGO has retcons regarding that which you can't prove without blatantly telling me the words and TL given are meaningless.

I mean you keep saying you can read it but it clearly doesn't show, so you can't read and write as well now. Good to know for the future then.

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Honestly, I just see the "no modern servants" rule as a more enduring version of the "only Hassans" rule. It works on the confined story of FSN, but it's needlessly limiting. So it needs to be discarded to the franchise to move forward.

It isn't even a rule in the first place with the whole context so...

[Zork Knight]

I mean Extra isn't FSN so apparently it doesn't matter.

But more seriously, Li and Hans aren't a lot of Servants like in GO. Even before them Urobuchi was using Gilles de Rais who was well-documented, while Apoc has Jeanne and Amakusa.

FSN was entirely mythological people from long ago (and a nobody pretending to be Hassan-i-Sabbah and a farmer eerily similar to Sasaki Kojirou)

Zero introduced actual historical people but from a distant past associated with legends (demigod Iskandar and Star Pact Warlock Gilles).

Then Extra went all out with normie from yesterday Li Shuwen and thing Nursery Rhyme.

[Comun]

Can we drop this discussion? If we want to be really nitpicky about one sentence, Rin's line is not relevant to what you're talking about and here's why:

そうして年代を問わず、近くは百年前、遠くは神代の頃から英霊は召喚された。
Past tense. It was never stating a rule, it was stating precedent. Rin was never claiming to know the full limits of the system, so she makes clear her thoughts are pieced together by observing the Heroic Spirits summoned before.

[Bookworm Luke]

What goalposts have I moved? You're the one telling me the first part of the sentence is irrelevant as well as the context for your view that FGO has retcons regarding that which you can't prove without blatantly telling me the words and TL given are meaningless.

I mean you keep saying you can read it but it clearly doesn't show, so you can't read and write as well now. Good to know for the future then.

I mean, the onus is kind of on you to prove I can't read this stuff. I kind of proven my literacy over the years.

[Herod]

Honestly, I just see the "no modern servants" rule as a more enduring version of the "only Hassans" rule. It works on the confined story of FSN, but it's needlessly limiting. So it needs to be discarded to the franchise to move forward.

Without going into strange stuff like Emiya, the text itself declares that the most recent heroic spirits are "from 100 years ago", definitely inside the modern era.

[AAM1232]

I mean, the onus is kind of on you to prove I can't read this stuff. I kind of proven my literacy over the years.

Considering you've ignored what I posted and accounting for Comun's post, you haven't. At the very least you can recognize when I'm mocking you I suppose.

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Like just a few lines later, from fallacies and Mirror Moon:

　……あらゆる年代、あらゆる国の英雄が現代に蘇り、覇を競い合う殺し合い。

Falla:... Heroic Spirits of every era; every nation do in modernity revive, to vie for supremacy in a deathmatch.

MM:
Heroes from every age and country are revived into the present day, to kill one another for supremacy.

But apparently that too is me shifting goalposts.

[the god of world-0]

Without going into strange stuff like Emiya, the text itself declares that the most recent heroic spirits are "from 100 years ago", definitely inside the modern era.

Bah, semantics. You know what i meant

[Bookworm Luke]

Considering you've ignored what I posted and accounting for Comun's post, you haven't. At the very least you can recognize when I'm mocking you I suppose.

Well, ya, I am pretty sure you don't like me, looking at all the trolling. I figured that out pretty quick.

Like just a few lines later, from fallacies and Mirror Moon:



But apparently that too is me shifting goalposts.

Of course it is shifting goal post.

If you just want to snip sentences, early on it says "Servants are heroes from the past".

I too can just chop it off here and call it a day.

[Herod]

Bah, semantics. You know what i meant

No.
What is a "modern" heroic spirit?

[AAM1232]

Feel free to stick with your headcanon then I guess.

[the god of world-0]

Like Li Shuwen, or Nightingale. Recent figures who are really interesting, but probably wouldn't have a chance with said rule.

[Bookworm Luke]

Feel free to stick with your headcanon then I guess.

I don't know. Seems like you are the one with the headcanon, Mr. "You-don't-agree-with-me-so-you-can't-read-Japanese".

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No.
What is a "modern" heroic spirit?

By the book "現代の英霊", like Voyager.

Or contemporary? Whatever you want to call it.

[AAM1232]

I don't know. Seems like you are the one with the headcanon, Mr. "You-don't-agree-with-me-so-you-can't-read-Japanese".

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By the book "現代の英霊", like Voyager.

Or contemporary? Whatever you want to call it.

I'm not the one twisting myself into knots by ignoring what is given though. I'm not the one sitting on my ass unwilling to even do a basic Google search for any answers. Sorry that you seem incapable of such things.

[Bookworm Luke]

I'm not the one twisting myself into knots by ignoring what is given though. I'm not the one sitting on my ass unwilling to even do a basic Google search for any answers. Sorry that you seem incapable of such things.

OK

[Leftovers]

I doubt that, considering I posted the JP text and a better TL than Mirror Moon.

Bro you're just waving around a fallacies translation from JP you can't read and arguing for her interpretation, come off it. An infodump at the beginning of a work that introduces its brand-new fundamental concepts is there for the reader's information, to know where this setting stands. Ignoring one part as "not a fact" while holding up an isolated reading of a sentence that contradicts it as "fact" isn't a position you argue from, but for.

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Also bye food.

[the god of world-0]

Oof, wonder how many casualties this thread has caused.

[AAM1232]

Bro you're just waving around a fallacies translation from JP you can't read and arguing for her interpretation, come off it. An infodump at the beginning of a work that introduces its brand-new fundamental concepts is there for the reader's information, to know where this setting stands. Ignoring one part as "not a fact" while holding up an isolated reading of a sentence that contradicts it as "fact" isn't a position you argue from, but for.

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Also bye food.

The whole context is this, a TL I asked for from Fallacies:

　が、聖杯はその不可能を可能にした。
But, the Holy Grail did that impossibility render as possible.　

本来人間の手におえぬ英霊をまるごと召喚し、あまつさえマスターに仕える使い魔に固定した。
Summoning whole Heroic Spirits originally beyond the control of man, and thereon affixing them as Familiars in the service of Masters.　

そのデタラメさは、まさに聖杯が万能である事の証でもある。
Such nonsense was verily the proof that the Holy Grail was omnipotent (万能, bannou, "of ten thousand potencies"). 　

そうして年代を問わず、近くは百年前、遠くは神代の頃から英霊は召喚された。
And irrelevant of era — from as near (近く, chikaku) as a hundred years prior (百年前, hyakunen-mae); or as far as the vicinity of the Age of Divinities (神代の頃, jindai no koro) — Heroic Spirits have been summoned forth.　

七人の英霊はそれぞれ七人のマスターに従い、おのがマスターを守護し、敵であるマスターを駆逐 する。
Seven Heroic Spirits serve seven masters — protecting their own Master, and expelling those Masters that are their enemies.　

……あらゆる年代、あらゆる国の英雄が現代に蘇り、覇を競い合う殺し合い。
... Heroic Spirits of every era; every nation do in modernity revive, to vie for supremacy in a deathmatch.　

それが、この儀式が聖杯戦争と呼ばれる由縁だろう。
Such would be the reason that this ritual is called as the War for the Holy Grail, perhaps.

Sure it's difficult to parse through her TL, but nothing there suggests that the time period Rin gives is anything like a hard limit on from when you can summon HSs. And I'm not sure why my lack of knowledge of JP is suddenly more important than her TL and thoughts as to why she TLed it that way. But sure, Food/Bookworm Luke's interpretation is totally logical and doesn't fall apart even if you assume that Rin is right here. It's not like he provided anything other than "Nuh uh, your TL is terrible".