Which TM relationship is the most toxic?

[forumghost]

It gets even creepier when he just kinda casually leaves her alone, sort of, with Shinji in UBW.

Unless he's just being a bro and wants to help Shinji get a taste of the both Tohsaka then.

Nah, he was trying to help Saber out by giving her the opportunity to play Knight to a damsel in distress again, but Artoria was like "nah fam, I'm chill with Rin getting assaulted as long as I can watch you and Shirou Cross Swords LMAO"

[TheSeaDragon]

True, sabers attitude there was quite dumb, more so considering , if my memories are on point,Rin was her master already , but still, not cool for Archer, he was really playing edgy boy there, dad would be proud

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Nah, he was trying to help Saber out by giving her the opportunity to play Knight to a damsel in distress again, but Artoria was like "nah fam, I'm chill with Rin getting assaulted as long as I can watch you and Shirou Cross Swords LMAO"

But in Saber's defense, they already had Lancer on Rin rescue, and he performed his job marvelously.

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Also, Saber was still looking for her own answers, and she did find them by watching that duel.

[TheSeaDragon]

Saber, or any of them, for that matter , didnt knew cu would made it , or his master identity. If he wasnt a battle continuation chad , Rin would have been killed by kirei, or raped by shinji or freakin both.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Considering she knew Lancer's true name, she likely also knew he WAS a BC chad. I admit, it wasn't the best decision, but there is some rationale behind it. That, and Shirou would have likely died several times if Avalon wasn't healing him due to Saber's proximity.

[LostHanyou]

I don't get how Shiki and Akiha have the most toxic relationship unless it's something from the remake. Haven't read tsukihime in over 10 years, but I found their relationship quite touching, and it seems to me to only become toxic due to Akiha's inversion impulse. Which I would consider to be a bit unfair of a metric to judge their relationship on.

[Comun]

Toxic and touching are far from mutually exclusive. See Kohakiha or AngraCaren.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I don't get how Shiki and Akiha have the most toxic relationship unless it's something from the remake. Haven't read tsukihime in over 10 years, but I found their relationship quite touching, and it seems to me to only become toxic due to Akiha's inversion impulse. Which I would consider to be a bit unfair of a metric to judge their relationship on.

I definitely changed my mind on this one, but remake Akiha is already a tad bit less reasonable in Blue Glass Moon, and Nasu apparently regretted making Akiha so "soft" in the original, which makes it seem to me that Red Garden, and Akiha specifically, is going to be next level fucked up.

[Lady Vanatos]

Serenity x Anyone is the most toxic by default.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

True, especially her relationship with a corpse puppet. It's a twofer.

[LostHanyou]

Toxic and touching are far from mutually exclusive. See Kohakiha or AngraCaren.

I don't know if touching is the first word I'd use to describe either of those relationships. Very fucked and pretty fucked up come to mind respectively. But I get the point.

[forumghost]

True, sabers attitude there was quite dumb, more so considering , if my memories are on point,Rin was her master already , but still, not cool for Archer, he was really playing edgy boy there, dad would be proud

I mean Archer went full shitlord in UBW but it's not like he had any options there- he either A) Agreed to let Shinji molest Rin B) Fought Gil with no Master and died, then Rin gets molested anyway or C) Convinced Gil/Shinji to wait for Shirou and Saber to show up

I don't get how Shiki and Akiha have the most toxic relationship unless it's something from the remake. Haven't read tsukihime in over 10 years, but I found their relationship quite touching, and it seems to me to only become toxic due to Akiha's inversion impulse. Which I would consider to be a bit unfair of a metric to judge their relationship on.

Honestly I feel like the most toxic thing that Akiha did was just ripping him out of a safe, happy home to force him to live in her house cut off from the family that raised him for the last several years because "I want him around"

[TheSeaDragon]

I know shinji or kirei coming there was not on him , he just wanted her as bait to get shiro and ultimately meant no harm to her, takin her as hostage without considering the chance of her coming to real danger and having no options, like you point out, thats was on him

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I mean Archer went full shitlord in UBW but it's not like he had any options there- he either A) Agreed to let Shinji molest Rin B) Fought Gil with no Master and died, then Rin gets molested anyway or C) Convinced Gil/Shinji to wait for Shirou and Saber to show up




Honestly I feel like the most toxic thing that Akiha did was just ripping him out of a safe, happy home to force him to live in her house cut off from the family that raised him for the last several years because "I want him around"

Were there more reasons than that?

[Ideofago]

That I recall, not really. And it was a net negative for Akiha too, considering it's either Shiki running off with the cow tits hussies, or discovering his past again, whose consequence was the disaster the Far Side routes endings were for her.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Akiha's only options are failure and catastrophic failure.

[Comun]

Were there more reasons than that?

Could be the reason why Makihisa adopted Shiki in the first place. When onis don't want to invert and go around hurting strangers, it's very convenient to have a born assassin conditioned to attack anything supernatural on sight. At least on paper.

A huge thing to consider is that by the starting point of Tsukihime, Akiha is already planning to die from whatever Kohaku was going to throw at her. Calling Shiki back doubles as spending her last days with someone she loved and giving Kohaku an ideal tool to kill Akiha with.

[Herod]

Could be the reason why Makihisa adopted Shiki in the first place. When onis don't want to invert and go around hurting strangers, it's very convenient to have a born assassin conditioned to attack anything supernatural on sight. At least on paper.

I thought this was already told explicitly? Or I'm confusing the story with old fan theories?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Could be the reason why Makihisa adopted Shiki in the first place. When onis don't want to invert and go around hurting strangers, it's very convenient to have a born assassin conditioned to attack anything supernatural on sight. At least on paper.

A huge thing to consider is that by the starting point of Tsukihime, Akiha is already planning to die from whatever Kohaku was going to throw at her. Calling Shiki back doubles as spending her last days with someone she loved and giving Kohaku an ideal tool to kill Akiha with.

I think she could have told Shiki at least some of this.

[Comun]

I thought this was already told explicitly? Or I'm confusing the story with old fan theories?

That's told explicitly only as the reason Makihisa adopted him, not as also a reason why Akiha brought him back.