Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[Petrikow]

Roa seemingly is scheming something in Souya beyond just trying to keep reincarnating.

As has been referenced many times throughout Melty Blood and TsukiRE, his plans involve the underground lair that was taken over by Vlov in TsukiRE. This place has been there for many years, from before Roa reincarnated to Souya, and contains an altar with a dome-like (or canopy, same thing) structure above it. The lands where this underground lair is located, was owned and operated by the Tohnos, who we also know employed Arach as their architect. In the 'take-the-wrong-Arach-vaccine-bad-end', the awakened Roa makes a hint that he knows Arach. The leading theory is thus that Roa and Arach are accomplices in this plan. (as an aside, this video also speculates Arach was involved in the North Pole incident where Roa tricked Vlov into killing Zaria)

When Aoko finds him there in her MBTL route, Roa essentially assumes he's been caught in the act and starts spilling some strange details about his plans:

Roa
Well, well.
To think the newest Magician would make her appearance...

Roa
I was convinced you'd come for me eventually, of course.
But this is a little sooner than I'd counted on.

Roa
My Pantheon has yet to be activated. Could this possibly be
a visitor from the future? If that's the case, then...

Roa
Heh... Hahahahaha!
Looks like his-- no, my theory was correct after all!

Roa
So I take it that my plan to see the cosmos
unveiled did in fact in someway succeed!

From other statements, Pantheon and Canopy/Dome appears to refer to Arcueid, or rather, the complete Arcueid. In fact, in MBAA (we going back) Archetype:EARTH says this:

「無能、跪くがよい
Bow, weakling.
　ヒトの力では星は掴めぬ。
The stars cannot be grasped through human ability.
　我が息吹はいまだ神域。貴様らの増長をたしなめる、
My breath is still that of the divine. It rebukes your growth,
　人知未踏の天蓋である。」
and is a Dome untrodden by human intellect.

This ties into Roa's goals in the Sixth Ritual (the France Incident), which was apparently designed to draw in and capture Arcueid (who is depicted in her long-hair, A:E form in those flashbacks). From the looks of it, he's trying to do something similar again (and this time, don't screw it up!).

In some ways the Pantheon and the Dome appears to be a metaphor to the Roman structure. As you can tell from his quote in MBTL, Roa's wish is to 'unveil' the Cosmos, I.E, remove the Dome (which is A:E?) in some way.

To expound a little, in ancient folklore the concept of 天蓋 is essentially the sky itself. It was likened to a dome that covers the world (the Planet). This word was later applied to the structural domes/canopies that we build into temples and what not.

[abdu11]

Since Roa is Christian I can't help but feel like the canopy that he refers to the one in the biblical conception of the world also called the firmament.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...df6WQ&usqp=CAU
With that being the case, it could be that his plan is to reach root by removing the canopy that separates it from this world all together, for reference we know per fsn that there is a wall between the "outside" where stuff like root lies and our world and since Roa mentions [ ] which is a term of the root, I can't help but feel that all of this is an elaborate plan to reach the Root

[Nanaya]

Roa is peak antagonist. I lowkey want to see the madlad succeed just to see how fucked up everything gets and what Shiki and crew have to deal with in the aftermath.

[AmADo VII]

Roa can never run away from back alley alliance. even if he succeed he's going to get robbed by someone.

[Nanaya]

Let him be God for a minute before he gets shanked.

[Comun]

I feel like we have very different interpretations on what Roa's ambitions are.

[TomPen94]

Record Human Histor- oh no the White Vampire is hot!

[AmADo VII]

Tsukihime is a love story anyway.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

How does it feel romancing, after nearly killing the Personification of the Planet Tohno-san?

[Byegod]

I'm reminded of the descriptions of the end times in the book of revelations

"The stars of heaven fall to the earth and the sky recedes like a scroll being rolled up "

which is also the 6th seal apart of the 7 seals

[Comun]

Roa's first dream flashback sequence shows little Mike Lore is a boy in late 15 or 13th century Italy who loved learning and hung out with everyone in the neighbourhood to learn more things. He eventually became a priest and mage to learn the Lord's mysteries, and later felt the need to eternity due to his aging body not being the best match for his ever unceasing thirst for knowledge. So far not so different from the original.

The most central difference between old and new Roa is that new Roa actually never stopped treating Arcueid as just a means to an end. The feelings the old Roa had for her are clearly still there, but they aren't an all-consuming distraction anymore. Dude has a Pantheon to run and an eternal journey to experience.

Anyways, back to the topic of what I think Roa wants. As I mentioned in the Lumina thread, my Pantheon theory is that Roa wants to open a hole in the sky so he can escape Earth and take his eternal journey to the cosmos. The goal in this could be God or the Root due to his priest/mage background, but I personally think this part doesn't really matter neither to Nasu nor to Roa. The eternal journey speech from day 14 makes it quite clear to me that Roa cares about the journey far more than about the destination. He is, since his origins, just someone who loved learning. That's why I give so much praise to Roa's new voice acting. It really delivers how much sheer FUN Roa is having with his every experience. He's so happy to be alive.

Another note on why "let him be God for a minute" feels wrong, his commentary on Kiara was about how Kiara clowned on herself by seeking power only to gain enough to learn she wasn't a big fish outside of her small pond, and he presents this as the reason why he seeks only eternity instead of seeking power. He really just wants to explore more, at absolutely any cost.

[Petrikow]

One of the more interesting aspects of Roa is (especially in Remake) is that he seems the only person who has escaped the 'curse of immortality'. In almost every Nasu-headed work, immortality, or in the more important sense 'life beyond death' is a phenomenon that degrades your character. The amount of examples of this are so many it would almost be pointless to list them all, so let's just give Roa the microphone on this one:

　祖と呼ばれる吸血鬼たちは永遠そのものを求めた。
The vampires known as the Ancestors sought eternity itself.
　私は永遠に辿り着く手段を求めた。
I, however, sought the means of reaching eternity.
　彼等が私を異端と蔑むのも当然だ。
So of course they hold my heresy in contempt.
　根本からして、私と彼等は違う生き物なのだから。
Because me and them are fundamentally different creatures.
　私の<航|み><路|ち>は間違ってはいない。決して。
My path is not a mistake. Never.
　たとえ、その手段が間違っているとしても。
Even perhaps supposing that my methods themselves are.

Because Roa's pursuit of eternity is for the sake of his will, his directivity, Roa can continue existing (perhaps eternally) without losing his purpose. In Nasu's mind, that which renders someone 'alive' is having a will towards life. Even if you are dead in the physical sense, if your will persists, you are alive (see: Crimson Moon for the ultimate example). And despite Roa's methods, he does retain that will, even if the rest of his being (his persona, his experiences, his feelings) are continuously lost through his reincarnations, as long as Roa's will remains, he will continue being "Roa".

In a way, this is part of why Roa is such a unique villain in the Nasuverse sense. Because usually villains embody the opposite of Roa's ambitions (Goetia being a good example).

Perhaps this is why it felt appropriate that he'd become your ally in the last part of Ciel Route.

[AmADo VII]

it's nice to see Arc fan club no.1 helping the no.2

[Comun]

What about Merem?

[AmADo VII]

Merem is unofficial until Kinoko writes him properly.

[Byegod]

One of the more interesting aspects of Roa is (especially in Remake) is that he seems the only person who has escaped the 'curse of immortality'. In almost every Nasu-headed work, immortality, or in the more important sense 'life beyond death' is a phenomenon that degrades your character. The amount of examples of this are so many it would almost be pointless to list them all, so let's just give Roa the microphone on this one:


Because Roa's pursuit of eternity is for the sake of his will, his directivity, Roa can continue existing (perhaps eternally) without losing his purpose. In Nasu's mind, that which renders someone 'alive' is having a will towards life. Even if you are dead in the physical sense, if your will persists, you are alive (see: Crimson Moon for the ultimate example). And despite Roa's methods, he does retain that will, even if the rest of his being (his persona, his experiences, his feelings) are continuously lost through his reincarnations, as long as Roa's will remains, he will continue being "Roa".

In a way, this is part of why Roa is such a unique villain in the Nasuverse sense. Because usually villains embody the opposite of Roa's ambitions (Goetia being a good example).

Perhaps this is why it felt appropriate that he'd become your ally in the last part of Ciel Route.

I'm a bit confused about will though? as I cant help but look at the times in the past about servants and the continous narrative they give there vs this, as wouldnt many servants who want to live or settle down or whatever count for this as well

[LegalLoliLover]

Merem is unofficial until Kinoko writes him properly.

Doesn't Merem have official art?

One of the more interesting aspects of Roa is (especially in Remake) is that he seems the only person who has escaped the 'curse of immortality'. In almost every Nasu-headed work, immortality, or in the more important sense 'life beyond death' is a phenomenon that degrades your character. The amount of examples of this are so many it would almost be pointless to list them all, so let's just give Roa the microphone on this one:


Because Roa's pursuit of eternity is for the sake of his will, his directivity, Roa can continue existing (perhaps eternally) without losing his purpose. In Nasu's mind, that which renders someone 'alive' is having a will towards life. Even if you are dead in the physical sense, if your will persists, you are alive (see: Crimson Moon for the ultimate example). And despite Roa's methods, he does retain that will, even if the rest of his being (his persona, his experiences, his feelings) are continuously lost through his reincarnations, as long as Roa's will remains, he will continue being "Roa".

In a way, this is part of why Roa is such a unique villain in the Nasuverse sense. Because usually villains embody the opposite of Roa's ambitions (Goetia being a good example).

Perhaps this is why it felt appropriate that he'd become your ally in the last part of Ciel Route.

Isn't that a fairly common trope where immortals need some "anchor" against the "river of time" or something? Having an equally immortal love interest is the most obvious example.

[Comun]

Merem has an official design and main-ish role in two short stories.

[Nanaya]

Roa's first dream flashback sequence shows little Mike Lore is a boy in late 15 or 13th century Italy who loved learning and hung out with everyone in the neighbourhood to learn more things. He eventually became a priest and mage to learn the Lord's mysteries, and later felt the need to eternity due to his aging body not being the best match for his ever unceasing thirst for knowledge. So far not so different from the original.

The most central difference between old and new Roa is that new Roa actually never stopped treating Arcueid as just a means to an end. The feelings the old Roa had for her are clearly still there, but they aren't an all-consuming distraction anymore. Dude has a Pantheon to run and an eternal journey to experience.

Anyways, back to the topic of what I think Roa wants. As I mentioned in the Lumina thread, my Pantheon theory is that Roa wants to open a hole in the sky so he can escape Earth and take his eternal journey to the cosmos. The goal in this could be God or the Root due to his priest/mage background, but I personally think this part doesn't really matter neither to Nasu nor to Roa. The eternal journey speech from day 14 makes it quite clear to me that Roa cares about the journey far more than about the destination. He is, since his origins, just someone who loved learning. That's why I give so much praise to Roa's new voice acting. It really delivers how much sheer FUN Roa is having with his every experience. He's so happy to be alive.

Another note on why "let him be God for a minute" feels wrong, his commentary on Kiara was about how Kiara clowned on herself by seeking power only to gain enough to learn she wasn't a big fish outside of her small pond, and he presents this as the reason why he seeks only eternity instead of seeking power. He really just wants to explore more, at absolutely any cost.

You're reading too much into my side comment. Let him be God is just my way of saying let him achieve his objective. For an antagonist to do so on this type of scale, even for a minute is him being omega god-tier based.

[AmADo VII]

.

.

I mean Merem is unofficial Arc fan club member until he properly appears in story.