I guess we'll get Tsukihime 2 someday...?
I guess we'll get Tsukihime 2 someday...?
I mean arent the authors still blatantly fetishposting with noel and other characters in more recent stuff?Originally Posted by Ratman
I was gonna say Noel isn't underage but then I remembered her vampire form and now I'm sad
Or all that "Vampire Ciel is 12" business. Why on earth did they feel that retcon was necessary?
I think I got this. So based on recent info from the remake and FGO, Archetype Earth state would be like the same thing that happened with Vlob in day 5 when he changed and started using ice. Which is related to that Principle concept intruced lately and it's also different from the Origin awakening concept from KnK.
I vaguely recall this concept being present and employed with regards to Crimson Moon way back in the day but I don't think it was stated it applied to other DAs too. Even though it doesn't contradict anything and it makes sense, which is kinda cool.
Did I get it right?
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
No, Vlov's ice-mode is innate to himself, it is not a general property to "change form" because you have Idea Blood. In his case, it is simply an after-effect of trying to suppress his cold by drinking blood (which he sees as warmth). Once he runs out of warmth, his ice-mode is unleashed, not really as a power-up, but more just as him displaying his actual nature.
Arcueid's A:E state is still mostly mysterious, but her FGO profile does define it as her "future, proper state", as compared to the Arcueid we know (in FGO, her 2nd ascension) which is her "present, coincidental state". The coincidence being her getting murdered by Shiki, obviously.
Hmm, I'm still only on day 7 but from what I see they use similar keywords like "awakened" and "principle".
Didn't Vlob got the ice abilities from his parent DA?
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
I think so, yes. The principle of the 19th DAA is "freezing".
Keep in mind that since you're in the spoiler thread and haven't read past Day 7 of Arc Route, this post is gonna be full of spoilers.
This'll make for a complicated explanation, but Idea Blood is not the same as a vampire's Principle (this was off-handedly stated in the latest TM-ACE, but can reasonably be deduced from the game). At least not exactly.
Vlov only ever took his sire's (Zaria Offenbaum, Ancestor #19) Idea Blood, not her Principle. According to Roa, Principles are not transferrable (at least not normally; but that's a story for another time). However, Idea Blood is. Its easiest to think of Idea Blood as a sort of Principle Booster in terms of its powerlevel functionality. We learn in Ciel Route from Shiki peering into Vlov's Principle that Vlov killed Zaria and took her Idea Blood out of a desire to rid himself of his coldness, which sort of naturally leads to the conclusion that Vlov not only had his coldness Principle to begin with, he only ever took Zaria's Idea Blood to try and ail the suffering it caused him.
Hmm, I see. Also I'm fine with spoilers. So that means Vlob got that coldness principle the moment he became a DA. Though it still feels like there was a big change in him mid-fight with Arc and he said he "awakened". He was also in control from that point on.
It still feels like the same concept as that Crimson Moon principle. But maybe Vlob being a weaker DA gets ruled by his own principle and has no choice but to follow it whereas someone like Arc can effectively supress it and keep it under control.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Vlov is in a semi lucid state most of the time because most of his energy/willpower/whatever goes into controlling his Idea Blood, because on paper he's not an advanced enough Dead Apostle to use it properly without, like, exploding or something.
omg dartz honey dont you leave me again
[04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute
*hug
Also, funny they kept the line about virgin blood being superior and more rich in nutrients. Lol, I remember people hoping it would get changed in the remake, but I think they made it even more descriptive.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
on the plus side, unicorn riding
Reflections on A:E profile
- Interesting that they chose to spell Archetype:EARTH with Katakana. I hardly think it means much of anything, but it breaks with previous examples.
- 原初の一 (Original One): This is actually even how A:E introduces herself when summoned ("you may call me the Original One..."). More so than ever, is this term relevant, given how much it shows up in Tsukihime remake. That said, it's fairly old. It first showed up in Kagetsu Tohya to refer to Crimson Moon. As we'll see later, it also has a strong connection with her status as an Ultimate One, which is interesting. That said, Ultimate One has showed up as a reading to other terms (極限の単独種 for ORT), so using it as a translation will probably just confuse things.
- ７周年記念のスペシャルゲスト (Special Guest for 7th Anniversary): Since this is in her profile it might seem appropriate to write her off as just some guest character (i.e, won't have a plot role). That said, I'm not entirely convinced. It feels awfully odd to headline her as A:E rather than Arc if fanservice was the purpose here, but who knows.
- Future/Present/Past: Describes Arcueid's different ascensions as manifestations of time periods. The 1st and 2nd are A:E and Arc respectively, but the 3rd is sort of new. It actually reminds of of Eco-Arc from TsukiRE (the way she talks, mostly), but even so it feels mostly like a fanservice kind of thing. Speaking of which, she has a sword in this Ascension. It might be reasonable to speculate that this is Crimson Moon's Knight Arm, 'REAL OF THE WORLD', but there's no hard confirmation.
- Three years after Tsukihime: For some reason, this 'present' Arc is actually from quite some time after the events of 'a certain route' in TsukiRE. It's hard to tell exactly which one, since Arc loves Shiki in both of them. I briefly considered if this was supposed to be a reference to the mythical "Arc True", which Nasu has hinted at in the 4gamer interview, but it does specify from "a piece of blue glass moon", so maybe not? Speaking of which, her Bond CE actually sheds light on the 'Refrain' situation. It describes Arcueid going back to her castle (which she does in both routes, btw), and then turning into a flower (what). In this state, she dreams of the events she just experienced, reflecting on them and trying to make sure that Shiki still remembers her. This appears to be why Shiki sees these weird vision in TsukiRE. Him and Arc are 'dreaming and reflecting' together. Specifically, this only occurs in scenes common to every route (first scene and Day 2), so I wonder if Arc True happens, these visions are going to continue there. Would make sense if this Arc really is the result of that route. Not something I feel super confident about, but it's an intriguing possibility.
- Her 3 personalities: Interesting how her 2nd Ascensions is described as introverted. I suppose I never really thought about it, but that could be an accurate assessment. Funny how each of them have a variation on "funny x". Was that MBAACC joke really that great?
- Asc1/3 fighting style: This line about how she normally fights by conjuring and mixing elements together is notable if only because it showed up in MBAACC before. Back then as now I think it refers to the way she shows light beams and stuff. Seems to be a natural part of how elementals fight, perhaps even similar to the usage of sacraments that fairies display.
- Ultimate One: Coming back to 'Original One', here it is mentioned in parentheses, that 原初の一 (Original One) is the same as Ultimate One, or at least, in Arc's case. It then goes on to explain that because Altrouge essentially contends her for the position as '天体を成すもの' (one which forms the celestial body), she's not actually the 'ONE', at least yet. A lot of implications here. First off: 'one which forms the celestial'. This phrase is used by Roa to describe Arcueid in TsukiRE too, in conjunction with 原初の一. It is also used with these exact words to describe True Ether in Babylonia, which is very interesting. I've thought about this before, but hey, maybe Gaia put away all the True Ether in the True Ancestors. Back to Altrouge, I suppose this explains why A:E is 'Archetype' rather than 'Type', since she's yet to become the sole uncontested 'ONE' of the planet. As for Altrouge herself, I wonder what this entails. We learn later that Arcueid is formed around the frame of the '世界卵' (World Egg) which is probably correlated to the 天体の卵 (the Celestial Egg) from TsukiRE, which sounds fairly unique. Is Altrouge formed around something else? Then why can she contest as the Ultimate One of Earth? If Arcueid is Gaia's Ultimate One, is Altrouge closer to the Moon? What's her frame?
- MR: Interesting to note that here we get magecraft sort of euphemized as "Interference Formulae", themselves noted as being born from civilization. Once again, Nasu affirms that magecraft is a property of humanity's civilization; a sort of 'technology' unto itself.
- The whiteboard gets explained here and in an interview but never in TsukiRE...
- Returning to the Inner Sea of the Planet: Arcueid's body vaporizes when she does so. Given the nature of fairyland, maybe this was expected. After all, it is a 'conceptual dimension', rather than a physical one. This sort of gives context as to what 'incarnated elemental' kind of actually means. Outside of fairyland, they're just spirits, after all.
- Original One skill: This is where the World Egg is first mentioned as being her 'frame'. Not quite so in her current form, which is manifested using a Spirit Graph. Hence, Arcueid is weaker.
- Marble Phantasm compression: '一時的に筐体をマナ凝縮体に変化させ' ("temporarily transforms her frame into a mana compression unit"). Apparently this is the fundamental function of Marble Phantasm. Compression! Fitting giving we know her Principle is the one of Focality.
- 亜麗真種: see here.
Last edited by Petrikow; July 31st, 2022 at 03:01 PM.
In what way? Isn't she basically the aspect representing Past Arc before/without the Roa incident? That would seem fitting for Eco.but even so it feels mostly like a fanservice kind of thing.
As for the route, I guess it could be any of them but I'm leaning towards Arc's normal route. I guess it depends on how Arc True ends. Does she go back to sleeping again, as if it's a cycle? Or do the dreams cause a change in that route.
Hmm... could they be fighting over CM crown as his successors?Then why can she contest as the Ultimate One of Earth? If Arcueid is Gaia's Ultimate One, is Altrouge closer to the Moon? What's her frame?
E: Thinking more on the routes, isn't it Eco in the dream sequences. How does that fit.
Last edited by Nanaya; July 31st, 2022 at 03:04 PM.
Wasn't Caster Artoria the guest for anniversary 6 and had a prominent role shortly after?７周年記念のスペシャルゲスト (Special Guest for 7th Anniversary): Since this is in her profile it might seem appropriate to write her off as just some guest character (i.e, won't have a plot role). That said, I'm not entirely convinced. It feels awfully odd to headline her as A:E rather than Arc if fanservice was the purpose here, but who knows.
Clearly it's leaving open the possibility of a sequel. Or maybe a Last Episode.Three years after Tsukihime: For some reason, this 'present' Arc is actually from quite some time after the events of 'a certain route' in TsukiRE. It's hard to tell exactly which one, since Arc loves Shiki in both of them. I briefly considered if this was supposed to be a reference to the mythical "Arc True", which Nasu has hinted at in the 4gamer interview, but it does specify from "a piece of blue glass moon", so maybe not?
I think Nasu liked the ending in the manga.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
We're so far beyond the point of last episode.
Caster Artoria was the 5th anniversary, but yeah. We might be dealing with Ultimate Ones in the upcoming story chapter, so the presence of Archetype Earth would not be out of place.
What, because of her comment in the last Bad End?
Seemed more like she was referring to the actual Bad End corner than anything else.
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