Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[Nanaya]

But if she does not exist, Arc should be the default "brain" in Fate timelines imo.

Hard to say anything definitive about Fate since the picture on CM, DAA and TA aren't even fully clear for Tsuki yet.

[asterism42]

Where did we get the info on Lululily A. Paranodahlia?

[Comun]

DA list had a name readable up to "Lululily A. Pa" and the bits and pieces of other names show that this Pa is the only possible place where Paranodahlia can fit.

Roa in Melty mentioned a Paranodahlia could undo his death even after Shiki stabbed his dot.

DA Noel's supers are named Paranodahlia and Rozay-en.

That's all so far.

[Best Girl]

Reflections on A:E profile

• Interesting that they chose to spell Archetype:EARTH with Katakana. I hardly think it means much of anything, but it breaks with previous examples.
• 原初の一 (Original One): This is actually even how A:E introduces herself when summoned ("you may call me the Original One..."). More so than ever, is this term relevant, given how much it shows up in Tsukihime remake. That said, it's fairly old. It first showed up in Kagetsu Tohya to refer to Crimson Moon. As we'll see later, it also has a strong connection with her status as an Ultimate One, which is interesting. That said, Ultimate One has showed up as a reading to other terms (極限の単独種 for ORT), so using it as a translation will probably just confuse things.
• ７周年記念のスペシャルゲスト (Special Guest for 7th Anniversary): Since this is in her profile it might seem appropriate to write her off as just some guest character (i.e, won't have a plot role). That said, I'm not entirely convinced. It feels awfully odd to headline her as A:E rather than Arc if fanservice was the purpose here, but who knows.
• Future/Present/Past: Describes Arcueid's different ascensions as manifestations of time periods. The 1st and 2nd are A:E and Arc respectively, but the 3rd is sort of new. It actually reminds of of Eco-Arc from TsukiRE (the way she talks, mostly), but even so it feels mostly like a fanservice kind of thing. Speaking of which, she has a sword in this Ascension. It might be reasonable to speculate that this is Crimson Moon's Knight Arm, 'REAL OF THE WORLD', but there's no hard confirmation.
• Three years after Tsukihime: For some reason, this 'present' Arc is actually from quite some time after the events of 'a certain route' in TsukiRE. It's hard to tell exactly which one, since Arc loves Shiki in both of them. I briefly considered if this was supposed to be a reference to the mythical "Arc True", which Nasu has hinted at in the 4gamer interview, but it does specify from "a piece of blue glass moon", so maybe not? Speaking of which, her Bond CE actually sheds light on the 'Refrain' situation. It describes Arcueid going back to her castle (which she does in both routes, btw), and then turning into a flower (what). In this state, she dreams of the events she just experienced, reflecting on them and trying to make sure that Shiki still remembers her. This appears to be why Shiki sees these weird vision in TsukiRE. Him and Arc are 'dreaming and reflecting' together. Specifically, this only occurs in scenes common to every route (first scene and Day 2), so I wonder if Arc True happens, these visions are going to continue there. Would make sense if this Arc really is the result of that route. Not something I feel super confident about, but it's an intriguing possibility.
• Her 3 personalities: Interesting how her 2nd Ascensions is described as introverted. I suppose I never really thought about it, but that could be an accurate assessment. Funny how each of them have a variation on "funny x". Was that MBAACC joke really that great?
• Asc1/3 fighting style: This line about how she normally fights by conjuring and mixing elements together is notable if only because it showed up in MBAACC before. Back then as now I think it refers to the way she shows light beams and stuff. Seems to be a natural part of how elementals fight, perhaps even similar to the usage of sacraments that fairies display.
• Ultimate One: Coming back to 'Original One', here it is mentioned in parentheses, that 原初の一 (Original One) is the same as Ultimate One, or at least, in Arc's case. It then goes on to explain that because Altrouge essentially contends her for the position as '天体を成すもの' (one which forms the celestial body), she's not actually the 'ONE', at least yet. A lot of implications here. First off: 'one which forms the celestial'. This phrase is used by Roa to describe Arcueid in TsukiRE too, in conjunction with 原初の一. It is also used with these exact words to describe True Ether in Babylonia, which is very interesting. I've thought about this before, but hey, maybe Gaia put away all the True Ether in the True Ancestors. Back to Altrouge, I suppose this explains why A:E is 'Archetype' rather than 'Type', since she's yet to become the sole uncontested 'ONE' of the planet. As for Altrouge herself, I wonder what this entails. We learn later that Arcueid is formed around the frame of the '世界卵' (World Egg) which is probably correlated to the 天体の卵 (the Celestial Egg) from TsukiRE, which sounds fairly unique. Is Altrouge formed around something else? Then why can she contest as the Ultimate One of Earth? If Arcueid is Gaia's Ultimate One, is Altrouge closer to the Moon? What's her frame?
• MR: Interesting to note that here we get magecraft sort of euphemized as "Interference Formulae", themselves noted as being born from civilization. Once again, Nasu affirms that magecraft is a property of humanity's civilization; a sort of 'technology' unto itself.
• The whiteboard gets explained here and in an interview but never in TsukiRE...
• Returning to the Inner Sea of the Planet: Arcueid's body vaporizes when she does so. Given the nature of fairyland, maybe this was expected. After all, it is a 'conceptual dimension', rather than a physical one. This sort of gives context as to what 'incarnated elemental' kind of actually means. Outside of fairyland, they're just spirits, after all.
• Original One skill: This is where the World Egg is first mentioned as being her 'frame'. Not quite so in her current form, which is manifested using a Spirit Graph. Hence, Arcueid is weaker.
• Marble Phantasm compression: '一時的に筐体をマナ凝縮体に変化させ' ("temporarily transforms her frame into a mana compression unit"). Apparently this is the fundamental function of Marble Phantasm. Compression! Fitting giving we know her Principle is the one of Focality.
• 亜麗真種: see here.

LOL, turns out True Ancestors all turn into furries to fight the monke, in order to become the boss of Land of Steel.

Notes just gets better with age and retcons.

[Dartz]

Elementals are all closest to the planet out of everything it created, especially those who are born from the inner sea. However they have their "role" being determined since birth to do specific jobs the planet wanted them to do with. Being the brain, with new implications, seems to be yet another one of the jobs that unless the planet specifically choose you, no one can get that role. And the job seems to involve being the direct administrator of the planet, resulting from the whole asking Crimson Moon to help with the rise of humans. Basically prior to Crimson Moon, it seems that the idea of having a "brain" like that never occurs to Earth as a living celestial body, as the Elementals it created were sufficient enough to act as terminals to manage the surface (like Yu Meiren), which was why it never got a Type like other planets, until humans became a threat that they overthrown the previous Prime Species - the gods. The furry A-rei in Lostbelt 6 for example, has the same "Breath of the Planet" skill as Arcueid, Yu Meiren has even better regeneration than prob most TAs (girl literally blows herself up into a rain of blood and instantly reconstruct herself as will, no vampiric impulses, can pull nigh infinite mana from the world, spirit core is one with nature...etc), and Arcueid is now called a "True" type of A-rei, who looked at Excalibur and believe it to be sorta her "sister", referencing the six A-reis whose job was to forge Excalibur with their body to fend off Sefar.

Another point is, it was mentioned in Olympus LB that powerful chief gods of some pantheons such as Zeus are capable of controlling most natural phenomena, making them the "closest to being the ruler of the planet", but they are not Ultimate Ones. The Lostbelt race at the beginning is also to "find out the King of the new planet". Kiara as Beast III was trying to make the planet her body (so she is pretty much gonna become its brain). Goetia tries to become the foundation of a new Earth he plans to create. In Extra, it was also said that the Moon Cell after evolving to the point it can affect the planet with its function beyond everyone else, is called "administrator of the planet", dubbed as the "Type-Moon" of Extra. The goddess Tiamat's appearance embodies the planet, with the horns representing the continents, the hair is the sea, her eyes reflects the inner sea of the planet, described as a perfect being with no physical and mythical flaws, when she awakens she caused spacetime drifts similar to when Archetype awakens in the MBBAAN manga, has no death concept like Types and has similar vibes to Type-Venus. And yet, none of these entities are candidates for Types, the planet didn't go ask them hey can we make some deals. So to me it implies that entities having aspects similar to an Ultimate One can exist, as in, governing the planet itself through their crazy powers or embodies the planet, but would not get recognition by the planet since they are not as "close" to the planet as the Elementals, especially ones born from the Inner Sea, so they are always lower rank than the planet's agents, and thus can never be the One. I think the main antagonist of Lostbelt arc is trying to get that role by force, just like Goetia and Kiara tried to do.

So with all the new lores, it seems that the planet created TAs the same way they created these high class Elementals i.e the A-reis in the past. But their intended purpose is to be the brain rather than doing different things. Pretty much instead of multiple Elementals doing different functions, one individual who can do ALL functions is the new idea. In other words, there is a pool of Elementals who are not much diff from the TAs in term of their being, but it is because of the fact that their role cannot be changed, there is no "ascension" to become the Ultimate One, the planet had to create the TAs to fulfill that role after consulting Crimson Moon. And among the TAs, it then have to pick between the most perfect ones, namely between Arc and Altrouge.

That being said, I think it works a bit differently in Fate timelines, due to the downfall of the DAAs, Zelretch not being vampiric and Roa was toasted by Edmond Dantes. We don't know if Altrouge exists in Fate, because PM lives with Merlin now. But if she does not exist, Arc should be the default "brain" in Fate timelines imo.

Hmm, pretty good assessment. I agree with everything you said.
We also have that Tsuki no Sango story where it's stated they put the soul/brain of the planet in a vessel so they could manage the moon.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL, turns out True Ancestors all turn into furries to fight the monke, in order to become the boss of Land of Steel.

Notes just gets better with age and retcons.

Eww, I liked the idea of A-Rays being angels.

[Best Girl]

But seriously speaking though, it is becoming more and more clear that we are ret-coning a lot of the old definitions.

Like if you go back to the OG notes:

亜麗百種 [a-ray]
星の資源を使いきった人類が生み出した次世代の霊長類。
かつての星に現存していた各生物種をモチーフにしたもの。荒廃した星でも生存可能であるように生態を大きく 改良・強化されたもの。その系統樹は様々で、大きく分類して百種にわたる。一から十までの位である亜麗は単 一種であり、群体ではない。
中には人間としての遺伝子を含み、人間と似た形態の亜麗も存在するが、やはり大部分は様々な生命種と霊長類 とが融合、進化したものである。

If you are not being a neckbeard pedant, the impression you would get is that A-rays are evolved humans, and "Primates" here mean monke-kind.

Current A-ray is not old A-ray, current Primate is not old Primate.

- - - Updated - - -

My wank after contextualizing the new bits is that:

A-rays are now powerful elementals, and the Land of Steel scenario is recontextualized as the A-rays going rogue after the death of the planet. They evolved into chimeric shapes to adapt to the dying planet. The resemblance to different animals was due to the imprint left on them by the planet (they have the blueprints of extinct Earth creatures).

[Comun]

Notes A-Rays being a completely separate thing still makes more sense to me. A-Rays are Gaia's top dogs. The ones we know are Arcueid who gets called the brain of the planet and Woodwose who gets called the lung of the planet. In Notes, Gaia died. The proper A-Rays all should be dead with her, if a planet's organs work anything similar to a person's. Then old humanity in their death bed created the next species to walk the Earth and named it after the natural systems that they lost.

Of course, your interpretation is still perfectly valid if "created by humanity" is a lot more metaphorical than I think it is.

[You]

I wonder if Avalon Le Fey like Castoria and Morgan are also considered A-ray.
Isn't Woodwose the sweat glands. Heat Exhaust.

[Comun]

[Blastedspider]

In Tsuki no Sango humans created an artificial "brain" for the Moon, didn't they?

[You]

.

huh didn't remember that

[sentence]

In Tsuki no Sango humans created an artificial "brain" for the Moon, didn't they?

And this:



Which is another reason some people on twitter think Beast VII may be fake Type-Earth created in attempt to control Gaia.

[Comun]

huh didn't remember that

You probably didn't see it. It's hidden under breaking a bar in Woodwose's unwninnable boss fight.

[Blastedspider]

Which is another reason some people on twitter think Beast VII may be fake Type-Earth created in attempt to control Gaia.

Speaking of which, do we even know what Earth is in Type-Moon'verse?

All these talks make me think that it's not a regular/normal planet to begin with.

[You]

You probably didn't see it. It's hidden under breaking a bar in Woodwose's unwninnable boss fight.

well played lasagna

[Reign]

I wonder if Avalon Le Fey like Castoria and Morgan are also considered A-ray.
Isn't Woodwose the sweat glands. Heat Exhaust.

If the Avalon le Fae's purpose is to create Excalibur, which was also the purpose of the six A-rei, then I'd have to assume yes?

[Nanaya]

I wonder what is going to come later this month. I guess we can expect something good?

[Dartz]

If the Avalon le Fae's purpose is to create Excalibur, which was also the purpose of the six A-rei, then I'd have to assume yes?

Aren't those like the top six A-Rays from Notes? Seems like an obvious reference

[Reign]

Aren't those like the top six A-Rays from Notes? Seems like an obvious reference

They're the six fairies who created Excalibur 14,000 years ago. Maybe they're connected but since Gaia is dead in Notes it's probably just a nod from Nasu and not the same thing.

[You]

I wonder what is going to come later this month. I guess we can expect something good?

Swimsuits