Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[Dartz]

Ultimate One: Coming back to 'Original One', here it is mentioned in parentheses, that 原初の一 (Original One) is the same as Ultimate One, or at least, in Arc's case. It then goes on to explain that because Altrouge essentially contends her for the position as '天体を成すもの' (one which forms the celestial body), she's not actually the 'ONE', at least yet.

This was kind of crazy. I didn't think they would imply Altrouge is relative to AE Arc. It never seemed to me like she could possibly have the same degree of power and authority, though the lack of info on her didn't help. I'm guessing it has to do with the new Idea Blood powersets.

We're so far beyond the point of last episode.

Yeah, even the original novel goes past that point. But I heard the remake only has one ending for Arc, which is weird. So maybe there will be something extra in part 2.

Caster Artoria was the 5th anniversary, but yeah. We might be dealing with Ultimate Ones in the upcoming story chapter, so the presence of Archetype Earth would not be out of place.

I'm looking forward to it. I saw someone saying Arc helping resolve something in a Fate game would be weird, but ORT isn't really a Fate character either. It is also out of place there if you think about it.

[Nanaya]

What, because of her comment in the last Bad End?

Seemed more like she was referring to the actual Bad End corner than anything else.

I just always thought it was Eco talking from her voice.

[Petrikow]

I just always thought it was Eco talking from her voice.

Sounds like normal Arc to me, but hey, it's the same voice actor.

[Lily Emilio]

This was kind of crazy. I didn't think they would imply Altrouge is relative to AE Arc. It never seemed to me like she could possibly have the same degree of power and authority, though the lack of info on her didn't help. I'm guessing it has to do with the new Idea Blood powersets.

More like it is a thing for True Ancestors and Elementals in general.

真祖、精霊は数あれど、星の頭脳体となる個体は限られています。私はその一つなのでしょうが、今は、その責 務から解放されているようです。

They are in essence "extensions" of the planet, so they can be "candidates" to be in the role of the "brain" of the planet, however only very few of them meets the standards to become the brain. So naturally, if the planet see that it has multiple TAs or Elementals of very close quality and power, it has to pick one it deems the most fitting. Idk how the planet itself will choose candidates, but it seems in the case of Arc vs Altrouge, because their quality are very close to each other, shit about to go down in the future to decide which one of them can become the true Type Earth. Her FGO line here implies that this version of her is now free from that duty, w/e that means. Someone else became Type Earth? (Altrouge won?), or it's a tease for FGO's future storyline.

[Petrikow]

I think it's trying to say that because she's been summoned to Chaldea or whatever and doesn't have her World Egg frame (instead been stuffed into a Spirit Graph), she doesn't qualify in her current state.

[Lily Emilio]

I think it's trying to say that because she's been summoned to Chaldea or whatever and doesn't have her World Egg frame (instead been stuffed into a Spirit Graph), she doesn't qualify in her current state.

Maybe. But I doubt it is just that, considering that the only thing the entry said on that is about her cannot use planet's backup in full, not about it making her stop being a candidate. And since it is the final ascension line, it feels like she is confirming her duty as of now is as a servant fighting for Chaldea, than obligation to do her Archetype job. Maybe I'm overthinking it and its just lul fanservice char saying she's free to do your bidding now, but who knows.

[Nanaya]

I took it the same way as Petri. Though maybe it's referencing being in FGO or the current status of FGO's world.

[Dartz]

More like it is a thing for True Ancestors and Elementals in general.

They are in essence "extensions" of the planet, so they can be "candidates" to be in the role of the "brain" of the planet, however only very few of them meets the standards to become the brain. So naturally, if the planet see that it has multiple TAs or Elementals of very close quality and power, it has to pick one it deems the most fitting. Idk how the planet itself will choose candidates, but it seems in the case of Arc vs Altrouge, because their quality are very close to each other, shit about to go down in the future to decide which one of them can become the true Type Earth. Her FGO line here implies that this version of her is now free from that duty, w/e that means. Someone else became Type Earth? (Altrouge won?), or it's a tease for FGO's future storyline.

I'm not sure about new lore but Brain of the planet was the title for AE in her MBAA profiles. From what I get I don't think the planet just assigns someone, she is just already in that role, there is just someone else that's the same so she is not "the one".
What I find weird is that Altrouge is never referred to as an elemental that close to the planet. That's news.

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Though I guess the implications were always there with her having Primate Murder as a pet. That's a huge deal nowadays.

[Comun]

Its easiest to think of Idea Blood as a sort of Principle Booster in terms of its powerlevel functionality.

I don't think that's how it works. Noel's Idea Mosaic gave her Rita's Rose Principle in addition to her own Homesick Bells Principle. Vlov doesn't show other tricks other than cold and warmth, so it makes more to assume they're different Principles, one for each. Though it's impossible to tell which is whose because both are far more associated with the cold than with the heat.

[MaxAkito]

I don't think that's how it works. Noel's Idea Mosaic gave her Rita's Rose Principle in addition to her own Homesick Bells Principle. Vlov doesn't show other tricks other than cold and warmth, so it makes more to assume they're different Principles, one for each. Though it's impossible to tell which is whose because both are far more associated with the cold than with the heat.

I thought you could only hold one Principle anyways though, so I just took it as Noel getting the Rita Idea Blood but she didn't have the Principle for so it sucked, and then because shes a DA she got her Bells of Nostalgia. Maybe I'm misremembering

[Petrikow]

But the heat is just a side-effect of his cold? That's explained quite clearly.

And that was precisely the point with the Idea Mosiac and Ciel's pilfering, those are presumably the fruits of Roa's succession research where he explicitly tries to come up with a way of making Principles (not Idea Blood) inheritable. Without this assumption, the statements about Idea Blood/Principles start to contradict each other badly.

[asterism42]

Though I guess the implications were always there with her having Primate Murder as a pet. That's a huge deal nowadays.

I think it's unclear if she has Primate Murder/Cath Palug as a familiar in the remake continuity. At the very least, he's not on the list of Dead Apostle Ancestors.

[You]

I don't think that's how it works. Noel's Idea Mosaic gave her Rita's Rose Principle in addition to her own Homesick Bells Principle. Vlov doesn't show other tricks other than cold and warmth, so it makes more to assume they're different Principles, one for each. Though it's impossible to tell which is whose because both are far more associated with the cold than with the heat.

The heat is from him Akiha-style taking in the warmth of the land around him.
You get fire because he's moving around gigantic amounts of heat.

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oh sniped

[Byegod]

(to petrikow notes since it wasnt letting me quote you)

Ill note on your thoughts on true ether.

Remember paracelsus made something similar to true ether, plus he uses philosophers stones which are utilized by the mooncell. which also took the ultimate one place in extra timelines or whatever if memory serves.

Also elementals are heavily related to alchemy so i thought I would want to note that as well

[Lily Emilio]

I'm not sure about new lore but Brain of the planet was the title for AE in her MBAA profiles. From what I get I don't think the planet just assigns someone, she is just already in that role, there is just someone else that's the same so she is not "the one".

Elementals are all closest to the planet out of everything it created, especially those who are born from the inner sea. However they have their "role" being determined since birth to do specific jobs the planet wanted them to do with. Being the brain, with new implications, seems to be yet another one of the jobs that unless the planet specifically choose you, no one can get that role. And the job seems to involve being the direct administrator of the planet, resulting from the whole asking Crimson Moon to help with the rise of humans. Basically prior to Crimson Moon, it seems that the idea of having a "brain" like that never occurs to Earth as a living celestial body, as the Elementals it created were sufficient enough to act as terminals to manage the surface (like Yu Meiren), which was why it never got a Type like other planets, until humans became a threat that they overthrown the previous Prime Species - the gods. The furry A-rei in Lostbelt 6 for example, has the same "Breath of the Planet" skill as Arcueid, Yu Meiren has even better regeneration than prob most TAs (girl literally blows herself up into a rain of blood and instantly reconstruct herself as will, no vampiric impulses, can pull nigh infinite mana from the world, spirit core is one with nature...etc), and Arcueid is now called a "True" type of A-rei, who looked at Excalibur and believe it to be sorta her "sister", referencing the six A-reis whose job was to forge Excalibur with their body to fend off Sefar.

Another point is, it was mentioned in Olympus LB that powerful chief gods of some pantheons such as Zeus are capable of controlling most natural phenomena, making them the "closest to being the ruler of the planet", but they are not Ultimate Ones. The Lostbelt race at the beginning is also to "find out the King of the new planet". Kiara as Beast III was trying to make the planet her body (so she is pretty much gonna become its brain). Goetia tries to become the foundation of a new Earth he plans to create. In Extra, it was also said that the Moon Cell after evolving to the point it can affect the planet with its function beyond everyone else, is called "administrator of the planet", dubbed as the "Type-Moon" of Extra. The goddess Tiamat's appearance embodies the planet, with the horns representing the continents, the hair is the sea, her eyes reflects the inner sea of the planet, described as a perfect being with no physical and mythical flaws, when she awakens she caused spacetime drifts similar to when Archetype awakens in the MBBAAN manga, has no death concept like Types and has similar vibes to Type-Venus. And yet, none of these entities are candidates for Types, the planet didn't go ask them hey can we make some deals. So to me it implies that entities having aspects similar to an Ultimate One can exist, as in, governing the planet itself through their crazy powers or embodies the planet, but would not get recognition by the planet since they are not as "close" to the planet as the Elementals, especially ones born from the Inner Sea, so they are always lower rank than the planet's agents, and thus can never be the One. I think the main antagonist of Lostbelt arc is trying to get that role by force, just like Goetia and Kiara tried to do.

So with all the new lores, it seems that the planet created TAs the same way they created these high class Elementals i.e the A-reis in the past. But their intended purpose is to be the brain rather than doing different things. Pretty much instead of multiple Elementals doing different functions, one individual who can do ALL functions is the new idea. In other words, there is a pool of Elementals who are not much diff from the TAs in term of their being, but it is because of the fact that their role cannot be changed, there is no "ascension" to become the Ultimate One, the planet had to create the TAs to fulfill that role after consulting Crimson Moon. And among the TAs, it then have to pick between the most perfect ones, namely between Arc and Altrouge.

That being said, I think it works a bit differently in Fate timelines, due to the downfall of the DAAs, Zelretch not being vampiric and Roa was toasted by Edmond Dantes. We don't know if Altrouge exists in Fate, because PM lives with Merlin now. But if she does not exist, Arc should be the default "brain" in Fate timelines imo.

[Dullahan]

[*]MR: Interesting to note that here we get magecraft sort of euphemized as "Interference Formulae", themselves noted as being born from civilization. Once again, Nasu affirms that magecraft is a property of humanity's civilization; a sort of 'technology' unto itself.

!!

[Byegod]

Why the !! dullahan. is that like in ref the human technology part?

whats wrong with it in your opinion then

[sentence]

Her FGO line here implies that this version of her is now free from that duty, w/e that means. Someone else became Type Earth? (Altrouge won?), or it's a tease for FGO's future storyline.

I assume Beast VII trying to usurp that place in Fate.

Spoiler:

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On Altrouge: one of the changes is that she isn't considered "Brunestud" anymore in the Remake (the list have her as "Altrouge"):

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Not quite sure. You could see there's a smudge beside her name. Fina's name also has Svelten part heavily blurred, and Nrvnqsr only has letter C in Chaos barely visible.

[AmADo VII]

yeah too much blur on most of Ancestor's last name.

this could mean Kinoko has not done writing all of them.